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AS for propelling playthings out of your perambulator, i suggest you look at the post you submitted prior to this, and that the pot stops calling the kettle black. I do respect peoples opinions, but when they want to start getting snotty about it like your previous post then I don’t value their views at all. That is rude.
And as i suggested, if it’s a thread that’s so ridiculous as you suggest, then you don’t have to read or post in it, as you are still doing may i point out.
But in the bigger picture, I wont get into an argument,as i make a point of not arguing with idiots, they only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
T.T.F.NAs for "image", do you really think anyone gave two hoots about the 5:45 Wolves in early March except (a) connections of the luckless Sheila’s Bond, and (b) forum members jumping up and down, on this very thread, shouting "farce".
Hardly high profile, is it? Was there a single mention of the incident in the popular dailies? Or on the BBC? Or on Sky? "Image" does not enter into it at all.
And who pi**ed on your cornflakes pinza?
What a ridiculous response. No one gave 2 hoots about the 5.45 wolves in early march? It’s because of people with attitudes and views such as yours that punters are leaving horse racing in droves.
What was your last job? PR for colonel Gaddafi maybe? Maybe we could get you a nice job as a steward at say..wolverhampton?
And if a thread such as this is such a ‘farce’, remember you don’t have to participate.
I wouldn’t be bothered about the start and finishing sectionals they don’t really paint a picture of a horses ability but more of how a race was run
Disagree with that.When used as a comparison with other races they can tell you a lot about a horses ability. For instance, if they had gone the same sort of early pace in the Dewhurst as in the challenge stakes, and produced those sort of finishing fractions, then that would have told me we had a confirmed world beater. A horses finishing fractions can tell you a hell of a lot about it’s ability,and modest early fractions and you can adjust speed ratings accordingly. When a horse such as Frankel, races off a modest gallop and displays such ‘raw’ power, it tells me that he is a speed ball who is a doubtful stayer. That’s my opinion, and I stand by it, as i have no doubt you stand by yours. We all have our own methods and opinions, and i like that very few take sectional times seriously, it gives me an angle that is otherwise ignored.
Your points about the sectional times are interesting as they are only just re-introducing sectionals this year but I will have to take your word for it. However you cannot say that he does not finish off his races in one post and then say that his "final sprint" was "impressive in another. Again I would ask you to watch the race again – it simply WASNT slowly run.
I didn’t say the final sprint was impressive, i said the final splits were impressive, but was also highlighting that these sort of finishing fractions are only achievable off a slow early pace.
If you don’t believe the race was slowly run just time it yourself. Trust me, it was. If this horse wins the derby then i will take it all back. But i don’t think he will, in fact i am pretty certain he will not.05 Mar 2011 11:36
This sort of thread makes me wonder why people huff and puff about such rare and understandable mix-ups as this. Watch what happened, people, and maybe you’ll understand how it came about. Then move on, get on with your lives.Really? I don’t think that would be the general consensus if this had happened in a high profile race at say the cheltenham festival. Would that be your attitude if this had been the champion hurdle….
I don’t think so. With the whole world watching, this would be seen to be the way that the UK racing industry operated.I also don’t think you are grasping the concept of the contempt as to which the punter is being held. Without the punters there would be no horse racing industry existing as it does in it’s current form. Not every punter got there money back.. a high profile proffesional industry is being put in the hands of bungling amateurs, and this is not right.With regards to not having right temperament, this is in reference to him not having right temperament to settle to stay a trip of 12f.
I am sorry, he doesn’t settle, and on every start he was keen.
Even in the Royal lodge he is keen, which is why quealy sends him on before the turn around the outside. And yes, i know comments from cecil and quealy in dewhurst about a bump leaving stalls that lit him up. Well that sounds typical of a sprinter to me. They live on their nerves and are like a coiled spring, very much like frankel.
Yes he prob will stay a mile, but will be amazed if any further, in decent company anyway. And he still hasn’t won over 7f or mile with a strong pace, so until he does, he hasn’t obviously. and if he hasn’t, then he has still got it to prove surely if we are dealing with facts?
Also with regards the Dewhurst not slowly run,in the Dewhurst they ran the first 3 f around 1.7 seconds slower than the GP2 Challenge stakes, and were around 2 seconds slower for the first 2f. If you know anything about sectional times, then the final 2f time will tell you all you need to know. The Challenge stakes last 2f was run in 26.8, where the Dewhurst was run in 24.3. There is no way that a 2YO could run the last 2f in that sort of time of a fast run pace. no way. That is what happens off slow pace, the final splits are very impressive as they have used no energy so to speak through the early part of the race.
And it’s all about opinions. We don’t know who is right or who is wrong… yet!
That’s madness! thought he had pretty good chance of retaining Ryan air crown(if he turned up sound)..why they are doing this route god only knows…then again maybe even he doesn’t, prob had him antepost for Ryan air….Bit of a long way off!
But, if there was a horse that would interest me at the moment, I think would be Dubai Prince. Can’t see him being quite ready to win the derby, mentally or poss physically(wait and see with Godolphin), but can see him becoming big player after. Lot of potential.
regarding Cape blanco, i would see him more as o’briens Eclipse runner? Can’t see him taking in many 12 f races this year. IMO.Still think it’s pretty early to draw any definite conclusions regarding the derby. But at this stage, these are my thoughts.
With regards to trends i do not like going back further than 5 years. I just feel that circumstances can and do change, and 5 years is enough to gain an insight and keep up with any changing trends. I have been having a look to see what fits the bill at this stage, and cannot get way from Roderic o’connor having an outstanding chance at Epsom. He is built for the track, and the way that recent derbies have been run, could see him skipping clear around tattenham corner and being hard to peg back. He ticks all the boxes, and will also probably fit the important recent trend of having prepped in the 2,000 guineas- which further back wasn’t the case, or the dante(would expect guineas obviously).
Indeed for the last 5 years you have not had to look beyond the Dewhurst or Racing post trophy, or the Guineas and Derby to find the winner.
The other contenders in my book at this stage are Seville(2nd in racing post trophy), Recital(another O’brien contender,though is a worry already run over further than mile as 2YO), Carlton house(impressive winner of newbury maiden),and one that i can’t leave out Nathaniel.(It is a worry that he is still a maiden though, and it will need a very impressive win before a run in hopefully the dante as 3YO).
A horse who really interests me for this season is Dubai prince, but i have left him out as i think his chances have diminished by going to Godolphin, and although has abundant potential, is plenty short enough at 12-1 on what he has achieved so far in my opinion. Likewise Casamento(with regards joining godolphin), although his form stacks up well, but i am far from convinced he will stay the trip anyway.Hi guys. newbie around here, but thought would get in on this when i read the thread.
For what its worth, my thoughts on Frankel are that he has a lot to prove before i would even considering backing him to stay a mile and a half.
He is a bull of a horse, built more like a sprinter than a derby winner, and I think it was his raw speed that allowed him to power away from his rivals so impressively off of very modest gallops as a juvenile. He has to prove that he can do it off a strong pace to show he even gets a truely run mile in my book, and he wasn’t exactly pulling clear at the end of a moderately run Dewhurst. In addition, i also don’t think he’s got the temperament, and doesn’t settle well enough. Allied to this the fact that the track at Epsom certainly isn’t going to suit him, and he has yet to race on a fast surface(which very rare derby going is soft).
His breeding is fascinating, in that i think you can make a case for either or depending on which way you look at it.
There is a massive stamina influence from his sire, Galileo and indeed his sire’s sire Saddlers wells and Urban sea. Yet if you take his dam, a 5/6 f sprinter and his dam sire Danehill you could question this. Also, being closely related to Bullet train(also trained by Henry Cecil)- who was not a mile and half horse, and Powerscourt(also best at 10f), it can raise further doubts as to staying a mile and half.
All down to speculation and your personal point of view I think!