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when racing does anyone buy the official racecard? at the top tracks like ascot and cheltenham i think they are worth buying but others at the likes of chepstow are a waste of money.
also does anyone on here think its worth paying £6 for a timeform racecard when at the races?I think Timeorm Racecards have only gone up in price about 1 pound in 20 years or so. Remember when the RP was 25p?
Craig
Its very sad this thread has turned into a whose ugly, whose nice, who’s smart and who’s clever debacle.
I find it hard to understand how otherwise rational people can "love" and "hate" television racing presenters and commentators.
I really do not know of the women spoken of in this thread but would highlight the following:
Brough Scott is of pension age, so comments how about how ugly he is now, was then or will be are stupid beyond belief. But he is one of the foremost racing journalists of the last forty years and an astute businessman.
As for Graham Goode, if I were a young "apprentice" commentator in the UK, I would value his opinion over numerous other racecallers I could mention.
Derek Thompson, as I said earlier, is an excellent journalist and can be an excellent television broadcaster and a good race commentator. I have no idea why he doesn’t constantly play to those strengths, though.
John McCririck seems to have sealed his own fate/destiny.
Jim McGrath is probably the wisest form book guy in the game but gets overlooked in favor of personalities.
I have never known Alistair Down and never have really seen the appeal of him.
I know from experience that doing racing television is not easy – I do feel a different editorial direction is needed than the Morning Line Format. Here in the USA, many tracks have their own similar program for satellite/cable viewers and they are mostly the same. I am going to try this year to make the one I do different in some way, without being too esoteric or silly, but that is not an easy thing to do.
Craig
Race commentators are just a left over from a bygone age, when there was no television and spectators at the course needed someone to tell them whwer there horse was when it was behind the trees or too far away. Like wise for stay at home punters with their crystal sets or nipping down the bookies to listen to the blower. (He said tongue in cheek
)I hear they have the internet on computers now!
Craig
The folly of Matthew Bannister was he only had a very vague idea of what he wanted to replace "the establishment" with.
I think the original poster has a fair point. But what Channel Four Racing needs is someone to work with the Producer in an editorial capacity to decide what route the future of their programming has.
Is Channel Four Racing going to be a sports journalism venture or a venture into entertainment. People seem to think the two are mututally exclusive. Sports journalism can be entertaining, but it is very difficult to get a credible journalistic grip on the slippery slope where it is firstly entertainment and then journalism.
This is where the "overly chummy and walking through the motions" bit raises its ugly head. It is an easy comfort zone for the on-air talent to work in but is often excrutiating to watch. I have been guilty of this from time to time and always regretted it when I re-watched my work, which does make me think (on all racing services) how often the on-air talent do watch/listen to themselves and if they do so with a critical eye?
I know Derek Thompson gets a lot of flak on here. But he is a very capable journalist and a very good broadcaster. Why he hides many of those attributes under his "humorous" persona which has been developed remains a mystery to me. He may believe (and I dont know this) that this persona has been the secret of his success, I would not agree with that. But he does have the talent to be that serious journalist and broadcaster and it would be very welcome.
I barely know Mike Cattermole, but from having read a lot of his columns, if Channel Four Racing decided to become a serious sports journalism venture, he could be the man to be that editorial hand in shaping its future. And he may find that far more lucrative as a career than that of racing broadcaster.
Craig.
I got a subscription to RUK for Christmas so I can watch racing online from the USA.
I really see it as the equivalent of a television "blower" service.
Here are a few things I would like to see from my first few days of viewing:
Instead of someone interrupting races with "They’re at the post at Huntingdon" – just flash it up in the corner of the screen.
Split screen doesnt cut it for me. Make an editorial decision, race A live…then go to race B or show the race when there is a gap in live action. Let TV subscribers have access to their website for free on busy days where they can watch the track of their choice.
We don’t need reviews from the "talking voices" just after the first four have crossed the finish. Sum up the top four, read the dividends and move on. What would be better would be to have the commentator on track talk with the guy in the studio about the race, without it falling into: "What’s up, big fella territory."
It might be time to think about expanding the racecallers role to do a brief 2-3 minute commentary before the race. This is often done in Australia and something I am trying to do more here in the USA.
Craig
Simon Holt is my favourite of the current generation and he’ll say things like ‘Inglis Drever is off the bridle but we’ve seen him hit a flat spot before’ and it all adds to the drama IMO.
Lee McKenzie is one of the unsung ones that I like listening to but I think he gets a bit of criticism elsewhere so I’m not sure what the general opinion is.
Aussie Jim and Dessie Scahill are tired and just go through the motions for me, neither should be in the high profile positions they’re in.
Expressed elsewhere my appreciation of LeeMac.
Craig
I think it all depends as to what type of race you are calling.
If you have a 3m chase with 4-10 runners then the commentator will always mention something about the horses stable,jockey and any previous big race wins while the race is in progress.
In the big flat races with bigger fields this will very rarely happen.
I like commentators who make a race sound exciting, Derek Thompson for example will make a 0-65 Southwell handicap sound like a Group Race as be bigs up the finish where as GG will probably go through the motions without paying much interest.
Back in November at Fairyhouse Des Scahill just said "They go out of View" in most of the races when the fog was blocking the coverage and then said nothing at all until they came back into view.
On the other hand Simon Holt who many times at Exeter,Brighton and Goodwood when the fog has come down kept speaking to the crowd and even got some laughs out keeping the crowd entertained while he waited for the horses to come back.
It all personal choice, Martin Harris for example is one of the most accurate in the business but never gets to loud even in the most amazing of finishes where as others really go for it.
Best thing of any commentator is to be correct,accurate and sound like you know what you are talking about.
Neil!
I have had plenty of "fog calls" and always make sure I have plenty to say in such circumstances!
I am not one to make a low quality race sound like a Group One. I think context in the bigger picture is important but at the same time you have to be enthusiastic. I think its much easier to go OTT than to rein it in. But if u go too far in either direction, there are problems.
Craig
Accuracy is the most important factor in commentating to me, don’t have a problem with exact position of horses being pointed out, can be useful particularly in a big field and if one’s gone missing, you don’t have many big fields in the States. Not a problem with colours or accutrements being pointed out either occasionally, sometimes there can be late colour changes.
Can’t do with commentators frequently stating "They’re sorting
themselves out" or "As they settle down".
Iain McKenzie will often give you a potted history of trainer, jockey or horse on the run in which I’m not keen on.
Mike C will often say "Just looking for such and such a horse" Why bother saying that? Just say where the horse is. Similarly what’s the point in Tommo repeatedly saying "Lets see what happens"?Yeats:
Saying those things is padding/filler for the commentator to work out whats happening!
Craig
Hi NWRA!
Yeah, I think stealing a line which will go down in history as one of the great British lines of the 20th century and using it in a racecall is not quite my style and of course would have no cultural significance in the USA!
Your point about facts is very interesting. The late Raleigh Gilbert was my hero as a racecaller when I was a young kid. I loved the fact he would add in info into his commentary and I mimiced that as a kid. Later, I discovered many people did not like that about his commentaries. I disagreed with them, though.
Craig
Hi The Young Fella!
Your first point about saying so and so is 12th, XXX is 13th and so on, here in the USA is called "Ordinal Positioning" and many racecallers do it over here in the USA. Drives me a bit mad as well!
Simon is indeed an excellent commentator. LeeMac, if your reading this, give him my email, please mate!
Cheers,
Craig
Hello Marble!
You bring up a very important point about young blood. Without trying to sound like a namedropper, Graham Goode said something similar to me in an email a couple of weeks ago. The answer is of course in being able to use one’s vocabulary without becoming esoteric in the process. Definitely a fine line to be drawn.
Here in the USA, this year (my first as a racecaller) has been interesting as the only Brit racecaller in the business. I have had to adapt my style a little. Not wanting to sound American, but cut back a little on the color identification and other comments because the one thing that has been emphasised to me is CPF (calls per furlong.)
A good example of this was when Mark Johnson was over here at Churchill. He averaged 2.91 CPF. (meaning he mentioned an average of 2.91 horses pur furlong) Which was around my average at the start of the year. Right now my average is around 4.2 CPF. Not delivering my words any faster or with the OTT of many American announcers but just calling more horses with less narration. Strangely one of the things people have liked about my calls here is the fact I still narrate the race as well as call it, but I have had to strike a balance that will appeal to the racefans bearing in mind my accent.
I have not spoken to Aussie Jim in so many years, I do not know what is going on there, but he was undoubtedly a big influence on me and a very nice guy to me as a teenager.
Cheers!
Craig
It says something, not sure what, though, when Jim McGrath is not on the list.
Still, it has to be Lee Mackenzie. I am telling you guys, you would miss him if he were gone!
Craig
GC:
Water shortages are a huge problem for much of Australia (as indeed are other energy issues) in many areas there are very strict rules of what, when and how you can use water and I can’t envision keeping a jumps turf course soft is very feasible.
Craig
Good luck Craig.
Whoever gets that job though has a tough act to follow on from Luke Kurytbosch.
Extremely. I knew Luke pretty well. WHat will be eerie is he made the commentary box into his own little racing shrine. Posters and memrobilia all over the walls together with the biggest collection crayola wax crayons, here, there and everywhere.
if I get the job, I will probably get a plaque for the door reading: "Luke’s View"
Craig
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