March 22, 2006 at 13:52 #4189
… to be thrown out the World Cup?
In the past, England have been threatened with expulsion from major tournaments due to the behaviour of their hooligan supporters.
In the coming world cup, the organisers have said that fans giving a nazi salute will be arrested.
Given that the English hooligans love to give nazi salutes and are even more likely to give them in germany, it should be a given that, if the german authorities carry out their threat, there will be a lot of conflict.
English complaints about spanish fans has led to a zero-tolerance policy (with Rangers fans, quite rightly, being singled out for their own version of racism), could this backfire and see England finally thrown out of a tournament?
SteveMarch 22, 2006 at 15:47 #99268Andrew HughesMember
- Total Posts 1904
You’d like to think so, but I doubt FIFA would have the bottle.
Quite looking forward to watching some German Shepherds taking a mouthful or two of English naziMarch 22, 2006 at 18:35 #99269
I hope England don’t get thrown out because of their fans, I wouldn’t want any team thrown out of a competition unless cheating was involved.
<br>and as for the Rangers remark Steve "(with Rangers fans, quite rightly, being singled out for their own version of racism)" we are being made scapegoats and this is total nonsense, Uefa have gone mad and lost it altogether and that’s not an opinion it’s a fact!March 22, 2006 at 19:23 #99270
we are being made scapegoats and this is total nonsense, Uefa have gone mad and lost it altogether and that’s not an opinion it’s a fact!
Sounds like an opinion to me.
Rangers fans are reknowned for their racial intolerance.
Maybe it’s all a big conspiracy?
PS It’s a pity Rangers aren’t playing in germany. I’m sure the some "we are the billy boys" would give the German fans the biggest laugh they’ve had in a long time.March 22, 2006 at 19:33 #99271
Steve, we’ve played in germany many times with no problems, Rangers fans are not racists either, we have black players playing for us and have done for many years, if it’s the sectarian stuff you are really getting at then that’s a different issue, though not everyone should be tarred with the same brush and if you really read more into it you’d find this out.
<br>:point:- Show Racism The Red Card!!! ;)March 22, 2006 at 20:05 #99272insomniacParticipant
- Total Posts 1453
It would be wrong to punish a team for the behaviour of its "fans": it won’t stop the racist/sectarian/fascist jibes. You’ve got to punish the offending fans themselves – if you consider their behaviour criminal. However it’s laughable to think that whistling Eric Coates’ Dambusters march in Germany should be considered criminal. Are the krauts that thin-skinned.? As for sectarianism, I drink with prods who take the p**s out of me being a cornflake/left-footer/papist; it’s all part of natural banter. People (or more particularly Politicians) should grow-up and stop acting as though everyone is going to have a nervous-breakdown just because they are even mildly mocked.March 22, 2006 at 22:52 #99273
Steve, we’ve played in germany many times with no problems
You missed my point. You clearly don’t know what a "billy boy" is in Germany.
This’ll give you an idea:
Rangers are a gathering point for religious hatred. If you want to deny that, go ahead.
I’ve seen this first hand, so don’t bother telling me to read about it.
Insomniac, if you think this is "natural" behaviour, then I think you’ve either a twisted version of what’s "natural" or you’ve never seen an orange walk in Glasgow and the idiots in rangers jerseys that hang around the fringes of it.
And if you don’t think there’s anything shameful in it, then you might want to try to explain why Donald Findlay felt it necessary to resign from the club when he was recorded singing Rangers supporters songs.
SteveMarch 22, 2006 at 23:49 #99275
It looks like you are too bitter Steve.
<br>Donald Findlay never ever wanted to leave Rangers he was forced out by the scum from the "other side" shall we say and the biased press who also tried to say Craig Brown sang sectarian songs too yet Hartson and Pearson (who are both on Celtic’s books just now) can visit Celtic rebel nights and blast out sectarian stuff and at the same time being caught on camera phone yet nothing is done?
Double standards :angry:
ps. we employ german players too, no complaints from them ;) Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â do you know what a "billy boy" in Glasgow is and who founded them? :biggrin:
pps. you read the biased press to much Steve :biggrin:March 23, 2006 at 08:14 #99278
"scum from the other side"
So, you’re not a bigot then?
Kind of proves my point (and saves me some typing).
I’m lucky. I don’t live in the west of scotland and don’t experience this version of racial hatred on my doorstep every day.
As I’m the agnostic son of an agnostic who doesn’t follow scottish football, maybe you’d like to explain why you think I’m "bitter"?
I live in Scotland and think that sectarianism brings shame on the country. Does that make me bitter?
It’s not "bitterness", it’s just being a civilised person in the 21st century.
you read the biased press to much Steve
In what way are the guardian and independent biased?
SteveMarch 23, 2006 at 18:14 #99279
Correct Steve, I’m not a bigot but I can be anything you want me to be, it matters not to me, I use the word scum because I feel that’s what they are, I hate double standards and there’s plenty of it in the press, that is a fact.
When I said you were bitter I meant by the way you brought up "billy boys" and the way you are having a go at the English, that seemed bitter to me but if you say you’re not then I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.
It’s no use me keeping this debate going as you say you haven’t an interest in Scottish football, if that’s true then I’m puzzled to why you are actually commenting on football in general as it seems it’s not an interest of yours.
Anyway good luck to you I’ll keep my footballing debates for those that actually have an interest in the game as I’m banging my head against a brick wall debating football to someone with no interest – I’ll go back and talk football to those that are interested on the football forums.
<br>ps. the press are biased the way I see it because they report any "mischeviousness" from Rangers yet sweep it all under the carpet when it’s anything to do with Celtic, there’s proof but too much to go into on a racing forum.
:banghead:March 23, 2006 at 23:47 #99281
I’m sorry you feel you are banging your head against a brick wall, but if you actually bothered to read and understand what I wrote, you wouldn’t have to feel that way.
However, you were either unwilling or incapable of following the points I made.
I do follow football. I never said I didn’t. I said I didn’t follow Scottish football.
Maybe this is news to you, but there’s actually football outside of Scotland.
And, in following football outside of scotland, I read about UEFA’s investigations into the bigoted chanting of Rangers supporters.
Go back and read my first post on this thread and you’ll see where this fits into the question I asked about England.
Or maybe you won’t….
I was a simple point which relates to the World Cup in a very obvious way.
Anyway, I’ve no interest in debating sectarianism with you as there’s nothing you can say that can justify small-minded religious intolerance to me.
And to try to justify it by pointing out that other people are guilty of it is the p**s
poorest excuse of p**s
SteveMarch 24, 2006 at 01:07 #99282
So you are a Scot and you aren’t interested in Scottish football? is that correct? if it is it’s very strange to say the least, people living in Scotland that like football have an interest in the Scottish game, ofcourse there’s football outside of Scotland every man and their dog knows that.
I don’t really want to talk about sectarianism either to be honest because that subject will have no outcome.
<br>Anyway from all the posts on here it was you that brought Rangers into it and I felt I had to defend my club as there’s more rubbish written about them than not and this looked like another jibe on a non footballing forum, after all is said and done I’m not quite sure why you would bring Rangers fans into it and also like to see England thrown out or hope England are thrown out of the World Cup because of their fans it’s sounds very anti-British, I’m also surprised I seem to be replying to you other than the English fans that are on here.
<br>for the record – I don’t want England thrown out of the world cup no matter what their fans do but at the same time I don’t want them to win the World Cup, I hope that’s clear for all to see.
<br>Hopefully I won’t need to come back in here and reply :biggrin:March 24, 2006 at 11:22 #99284
I’m not quite sure why you would bring Rangers fans into it
If you go back to my original post, you’ll see why.
UEFA/FIFA have recently been showing a harder line against racism (in its many forms).
The backlash against the Spanish fans is one sign.
The decision to finally take steps against the racism (i.e. sectarianism) in the Scottish game is another. Until this year, UEFA had chosen to competely ignore this.
Combine this with the laws in Germany that outlaw the expression of Nazism (similar to the laws in Austria that led to that "historian" being jailed recently), and we’ve got a situation where the English hooligans may be less likely to be tolerated than before.
In a past tournament (1998 or 2000, can’t remember), the authorities talked about kicking England out. Now, it was clear at the time that this was an empty threat.
However, in a less tolerant climate, could there be a real threat to England?
That was my question and it should be obvious where Rangers fit into this.
Personally, if I was English, I’d be worried about this. They’ve got the best set of players they’ve had in decades and they could end up losing their crack at the WC because of the holigan element in their support.
SteveMarch 24, 2006 at 12:53 #99285cormack15Keymaster
- Total Posts 8799
If England do fail to win the World Cup I sincerely hope it is as a result of performing miserably in their group games and getting sent home with their collective, overhyped and underpriced tails between their legs rather than being eliminated because of fan behaviour.March 26, 2006 at 19:53 #99288dave jayMember
- Total Posts 3386
I would probably ban Italy .. <br>fireworkiyo, <br>.. then it would be the dutch .. <br>cheesy madness <br> <br>.. at least the bigots in Scotland won’t be smoking, so it’s all not bad. Unlike South America where it’s against the law to not smoke. So, I’d throw all them out as well.
I think throwing England out of the world cup just because of a bit of fighting would be a good collective punishment for the English, a bit like it’s good to bulldoze all of the hospitals in the Gaza strip because someone threw a brick at a 50 ton tank.
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