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Had Estimate had the same number of "encouragements" as Leading Light she still would not have won imo.
But that’s not the point, as you’re well aware, Ginge.
If you’re only allowed 10 strikes of the whip and you total eleven, you’ve broken the rules.
Corm , wont you ever give up ….for years now you have been advocating doing away with it (the whip )
Now you are at it again
Time to stop Chief ,,,,its becoming very very boring
It just wont happen…..
Tell you what you drop the whip issue , and I will stop banging on about the dross channel ……deal ??
It just wont happen…..
Only because racing is run by spineless, reactionary, nitwits.
It’s quite simple really. If a jockey hits his horse too many times and that horse wins the race disqualify the horse. Simple as that. Jockey’s will soon learn the ability to count, they won’t break rules because it’s not in their interests to. Giving them a few days ban is pointless.#
Whether a horse is lazy or not is irrelevant, if the rule states no more than ten strikes then that’s it, no more than ten strikes. If that means a different winner of a race so be it …………. and yes I backed Leading Light.
My view Gladiateur, is that the whip SHOULD be banned completely (as has been chronicled on here in heated debate on the topic, which I was very loathe to resurrect!).
For the benefit of Gladiateur and other recent recruits to TRF here is a link to the thread that Cormack is, for reasons unknown, loathe (sic) to resurrect
Thanks for the link, Drone. 16 pages… I’ll try to plough through it tonight.
Here’s another 14 pages for tonight
Had Estimate had the same number of "encouragements" as Leading Light she still would not have won imo.
But that’s not the point, as you’re well aware, Ginge.
If you’re only allowed 10 strikes of the whip and you total eleven, you’ve broken the rules.
Yes, it is "the point" Gladiateur, or "a" point.
As I said earlier, if the horse gets an obvious advantage and has only won through breaking the rules – then demote it. Heavy fine and ban for jockey.
In other sports a minor breaking of rules does not result in disqualification and imo something that does not change the result is a minor breach.
If the horse has probably NOT gained any/enough of an advantage through breaking the rules – then allow the result to stand. Giving the jockey a ban and fine.
In both cases the rider, trainer and owners should be warned about the/their rider/s future conduct. If this jockey or trainer’s/owners different jockey/s do it again then stewards should not be so lenient. The more severe the breach the less lenient stewards should be with connections in future.
Value Is EverythingInteresting to read some of the previous threads again, if only to remind me how objectionable Pinza was.
If the horse has probably NOT gained any/enough of an advantage…
Who is going to decide how much of an advantage the horse has gained? Short of employing Dr Dolittle to ask the horse directly how much it benefitted from its rider’s urgings this can only ever be a subjective exercise, the varied conclusions of which will only provoke more ire and frustration.
Best to have a hard and fast rule- that way, there can be no ambiguity or dreaded "discretion" to mess things up.
If the horse has probably NOT gained any/enough of an advantage through breaking the rules – then allow the result to stand. Giving the jockey a ban and fine.
The fine is not worth the paper it is written on and encourages the jockey to give an extra bit of stick to take one for the team.
Blackbeard to conquer the World
If the horse has probably NOT gained any/enough of an advantage…
Who is going to decide how much of an advantage the horse has gained? Short of employing Dr Dolittle to ask the horse directly how much it benefitted from its rider’s urgings this can only ever be a subjective exercise, the varied conclusions of which will only provoke more ire and frustration.
Best to have a hard and fast rule- that way, there can be no ambiguity or dreaded "discretion" to mess things up.
To disqualify a horse for just one extra tap when it is clear it made no difference to winning and losing is crazy and would be badly recieved by punters, trainers and owners. Just imagine a Derby winner winning by 3 lengths easing up; yet because he needed to be encouraged early on – disqualified for being encouraged 1 tap over the limit.
It would also mean stewards would need to count up every winning/placed jockey’s taps (making sure they actually touched the horse) before bookmakers can pay out.Of course disqualifying a horse who stewards decide has "only won through breaking rules" will be (to a certain degree) subjective, but that’s better than wholesale disqualification… Just as interference rules are subjective; would you disqualify for minor interference that made no difference to the result just because "rules were broken"?
Professional stewarding might ease the problem.
Considering how many times a horse wins through breaking the rules, it won’t be a rule used often anyway. So imo less "ire and frustration" than you think. If connections know there is a danger of disqualification (and that danger increases by the number of offenses) then it will be a rule seldom used. Really only to prevent a "win at all costs" ride.
Value Is EverythingJust imagine a Derby winner winning by 3 lengths easing up; yet because he needed to be encouraged early on – disqualified for being encouraged 1 tap over the limit.
See: I wouldn’t have a problem with that.
If all jockeys, owners, trainers, journalists, punters and racegoers knew that you WILL get disqualified if you hit your horse more than the agreed number of times, there can’t be any argument. In your scenario, the horse clearly shouldn’t have been a Derby winner, anyway, as he’s too bloody lazy and needs a lot of early cajoling to rouse his interest. Just geld him and send him hurdling.
If the horse has probably NOT gained any/enough of an advantage through breaking the rules – then allow the result to stand. Giving the jockey a ban and fine.
The fine is not worth the paper it is written on and encourages the jockey to give an extra bit of stick to take one for the team.
Then increase the fine and ban.
Value Is Everything
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