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Nice one GGD; as ever the tyke has his priorities right.
You’ll be shocked to learn that the yorkie bars will in all likelihood soon be emigrating en-masse to your beloved Bohemia. As of yesterday they’ve been given a stay of execution and remain in Eboracum; the estimable work ethic of the Quakers has been replaced by the highly questionable global capitalism of the Swiss.
Have a break, have a euro Kit-Kat
BTW if you haven’t had congress with an Algonquian squaw you haven’t lived
Get thee sen weshed up you old **** (as they say in Sheriff Hutton)
amusing…until you have used a highly offensive and derogatory racist term. The sq word is not nice…especially as I have invited native racing people to look at the site. Please remove it.<br>You can swear and take the mickey out of people…but a derogatory slavery remark is highly offensive. Sq is a term implying a concubine in the worst sense.<br> It also should be very offensive to all women.
I appreciate your co operation as I am sure that you did not know its true meaning.<br>
You’re being a tad po-faced DD if I may say so. I’m quite aware that squaw can be construed as pejorative but as they say ‘the jury’s out on that’. For starters here’s what Wikipedia have to say:
"During the 1970s, some American Indian activists objected to the term, alleging that it came from a Mohawk (Iroquoian language family) slang word meaning "****<br>". The earliest known objection is from Thomas E. Sanders and Walter W. Peek, Literature of the American Indian (Glencoe Press, 1973), p. 184:
"That curious concept of ‘squaw’, the enslaved, demeaned, voiceless childbearer, existed and exists only in the mind of the non-Native American and is probably a French corruption of the Iroquois word otsiskwa [also spelled ojiskwa] meaning ‘female sexual parts’, a word almost clinical both denotatively and connotatively. The corruption suggests nothing about the Native American’s attitude toward women; it does indicate the wasichu’s [white man’s] view of Native American women in particular if not all women in general".
The above authors are wrong â€â€Â
You do not think a word which refers to a womans private bits and her "occupation " as a white mans concubine are not offensive?
Wikepedia and google are not exactly reliable sources of information.
Try googling "Nazi Antarctica" if you want hours of endless fun and it will leave you open mouthed. The US armed forces  invasion of 1946, and the fact that the Germans had flying disc scientists there  is true but as for the rest….much of the net is misinformation. I actually think some is disinformation.
Wikepedia is slightly more reliable as a source of info but also not great.
Most first nations regard the sq word  as highly offensive. Most women in the UK regard the c word as the same. But at least they are not slaves for it.
<br>However I have never had Oprah Winfrey quoted at me in any debate before and therefore I congratulate you on it!:o :biggrin:
I am not into pc at all. I didn’t mean to imply you were a racist. I just wanted you to be aware how some native americans see the word.
Anyway. I think you were having a dig at me.
Is it because I is black?:cool:
If you are ever at Chepstow we have a collection of Kiowa spirit horses and Cree Sioux and navajo warbonnets on display, and Sioux beastplates and horse hair earings if you are interested in First Nations cultures.
The punters accused me of doing a raindance the other week when it was waterlogged there:biggrin: <br>
(Edited by GreenGreenDesert at 12:55 am on Sep. 22, 2006)
Quote: from GreenGreenDesert on 12:53 am on Sep. 22, 2006[br]
If you are ever at Chepstow we have a collection of Kiowa spirit horses and Cree Sioux and navajo warbonnets on display, and Sioux beastplates and horse hair earings if you are interested in First Nations cultures.
<br>My interest in Amerindian cultures lies not in regalia but mainly in their polytheistic religious beliefs, particularly their reverence of the natural world; and the various, sometimes conflicting, theories concerning their pre-historic arrival into the new world from Asia together with the tenuous linguistic and genetic links with existing Asian cultures – notably the Ket people of central Siberia; the Ainu of Hokkaido – and the tantalising yet unproven (unprovable?) theory that the Na-Dene cultures (Navajo, Apache, Slavey etc) are the descendents of an ice-age ‘chinese’ migration.
Uh oh a bit of point scoring there I think.
I’m just a humourless tyke DD.
Keep up the good work; your posts are a heady mix of interesting, informative, intriguing, annoying, bizarre and occasionally deeply insightful. Edit: Your recent post on the Fallon non affair thread very much one of the latter.
Do you ever get yourself and your paintings/displays to the northern tracks? e.g Wetherby, Doncaster, Haydock, Aintree. I would be genuinely interested in taking a look.
(Edited by Drone at 9:59 am on Sep. 22, 2006)
Intersting. We should talk some time.<br>I have been doing a little researcg on another intrerst of mine. Big cats….namely the cheetah
I think I may have exposed something which will tear the animla rights movenment to shreds.
it was lys assumed that developmenst in Clovic people technology 11 000 years ago were responsible for a devastation of the ice age mammal population.
I never bought it. As you say, most native peoples have a reverance for nature that make them manage animal populations well and harvest sensibly.<br>now it has been virtually proven that the mammoth etc died out because of climate change. The new forestry was unsuitable for maga mammals to migrate. Significantly, the samller buffalo etc…survived.
Man was one of the casualties however. Clovic people appear to have vanished at the same time, possibly leaving a samll population behind.
They migrated back to Siberia. And the interesting proof is the cheetah. The cheetah is NOT a wild animal. It is not African, and did not turn up there until a couple of thousand years ago. HOW?<br>Waht is the first evidence of cheetah in Aisa, from where they would have to have come?<br>5 and a half thousand years ago and early Aisan/middle eastern civilisations. And how do we know this? They appear, SITTING IN THE BACKS OF HORSES AS HUNTING COMPANIONS ion pictures…lots of them. They are all hooded, and were used for hunting.
So presumably, they were TAKEN form north america and TRADED ro these people. So maybe the migration of MAN, likewise, was in the OPPOSITE direction ie the Americas to Asia.
But this is fascinating. that a hunting culture PRESERVED one of the most fantastic prehistoric animlas into the 21st century because it was a good huntimng ally. To this day, wild cheetah have no fear of man.
That may constitute the greatest proof that hunting cultures are good for animlas, and we may have to completely rethink the way in which we look at the world. Significantly, it is the movement FROM a hunting economy TO an intensive arable one, that now threatens the contimued existences of the cheetah.
Come up North? You’re all descended from our mortal enemies the Vikings!
We may come up to Sedgefield or Market rasen in the spring.
(Edited by GreenGreenDesert at 2:00 pm on Sep. 22, 2006)
Quote: from GreenGreenDesert on 1:56 pm on Sep. 22, 2006[br]<br>Come up North? You’re all descended from our mortal enemies the Vikings!
We may come up to Sedgefield or Market rasen in the spring.
Actually I’m a quadroon: my paternal grandfather arrived at Bristol docks in the banana boat from Trinidad in the ’20s, about the same time my maternal grandfather left Birr for the ferry from Dun Laoghaire. So I’m a real mongrel though prefer to describe myself as having ‘hybrid vigour’; white though I develop a most fetching tan in the summer. God’s Own County has been home for most of my adult life.
The cheetah is an aberrant cat anyway; the only one that can’t retract it’s claws for one thing and is generally considered to be the earliest diverging species on the feline evolutionary tree.
The pre/post Clovis debate and the postulated migrations back and forth to/from Asia is fascinating as are the possible migrations to South America across the pacific by early ‘indonesian’ peoples, though I believe that idea has all but been discredited by genetic studies.
The whole business of the movements of mankind before recorded history began is captivating and it can be – of necessity – no more than educated conjecture. All the way back to the ‘Out of Africa’ and ‘Multiregional’ hypotheses of early man’s evolution.
Enough of all that.
See you at Rasen in the spring may be. A great place.
Squaw doesn’t mean anything derogatory, crude or demeaning NOWADAYS when used in this country. To delve back to its etymological roots to find the sleazier meaning and then to demand it barred because of its original meaning is crazy.<br> For what it is worth, I believe that the etymological root of **** was actually a sheath in which to place a blade. Its current use is now crude just as the current use of "squaw" isn”t. Didn’t have you marked down as the obsessively politically correct type GGD.<br>Ask your missus if she’s a squaw or a ****; see which she takes offence at.<br>Must go now to have a shave and then put the Gillette blade back in its ****
.GGD………….
I would never go near a woman who’s face cannot be seen!
I admit that after waking up next to some "right munters" in my youth, it could be forgiving, and make me feel better about drinking so much. But. Its always nice to see where you have been……………..
<br> Some breaking news……………………….
All muslim women have made a protest against the U.S. President………….
They have all shaved their front bums, (you know the bit) and said…………..
"Read our lips. No more Bush"!:biggrin:
I asked her your question insomniac and she said this:
"tell him he is a F*******g chauvenistic macho W*****r, and to keep his sexist racist views up his white ass," and something unrepeatable about very small penises and chocolate starfish. I have no idea what she is on about…but you get the drift she wasn’t happy about either.
I feel you would get the same reaction from any of my first nations girl friends; but they are unlikely to put it quite as civily.
The migration and genetics of people are in some doubt especially in western civiliation….most of us do not know beyond our great grandparents. Contrast that with the proven reliability of native people oral records and the difference is startling. If you want to know where they come from…asking can tell a lot.
The newest method of looking at migrating peoples is with animals though. Non migrating animals…like cheetah…have to get from A to B some other way. <br>They were NEVER in Africa until recently(not quite true…there was an extinct breed similar but unrelated to modern cheetah) They are distinctly North American…so must have got there by intervention of man. As the earliest known record of them in Asia and the middle east is Ancient Sumeria 5000 years bc…actually 2000 years before I said. And they were domesticted and used for hunting.
Incredible to imagine this:<br>http://www.cheetahspot.com/cheetah-painting.php
look carefully and you see the cheetah on the back of a horse quite clearly…look for the spots.
So that is how the cheetah made it to Africa. And from north America by the looks of things….ptobably with the mogration of the clovic BACK to Asia.
It is a prehistoric animal yes. Also the fastest animal on the planet and the only big cat who can turn in mid air.<br>As a former friend of man we must indeed protect it. Comes down again to how. Well I am afraid cheetah don’t do awfully well in tourist safari parks, and their numbers have dropped drastically. They also do not do very well in competition with crops YOU FREE TRADE PEOPLE. Where are they doing well? On big game reserves, where the cheetah’s enemy the leopard is managed. Again we see hunting for conservation in action.
Your own family history sounds intersting Drone…have you tried to trace it back any further?
By the way Insomniac…I am not into PC. Just no point in using highly offensive words in mixed company. Why asterisk the c word and not the sq word? Yhe origin doesn’t matter. F*** has a legitimate origin. Find me another english word that is the verb for the sexual act? It doesn’t exist…that was religious condemnation of all such references in the dark and middles ages. <br>No wonder they called saxon priests Bollox.
The aq word may not be offensive to women here because they don’y know waht it means. I have no objection to its use; just the asterisking of words that may cause offence, and care not to use them when it may cause offence. As I said, I asked a couple of first nations racing people to pop by the site some time and I can assure you they would be highly offended.
I can also assure you they have a great sense of humour; so dry that it’s arid.
Insult and abuse can never constitute humour. Just because such humout may be based on ignmorance of causing offence doesn’t mean that the people it hurts have no sense of humour. If you make a joke about the holovaust you WILL end up in court. Why does that same rule not apply to other peoples? People can laugh at themselves all over the world. But nobody will laugh at gross insult; and ignorance is no excuse.
A wonder how the Christian church would react at cartoon depictions of christ in debauched activity or with weapons of mass desruction? I do not recall Islam cartoonists ever doing such a thing. They wouldn’t…because they have respect for chritsianity…Jesus was a prophet.
So yes…I do find it racist that people in this firum find moslems humourless just because they do not understand why thet are upset.
Make a joke about Aberfan and see how upset we get. make a joke about 9/11 and see how upset the americans get. Make a joke about child abduction in liverpool in the wake of the Bolger case and then say that liverpool people have no sense of humour.
Do you get my point? I am all for freedom of speech…but with that freedom comes a little responsibility not to insult.
And the sq word does insult.
Your joke lolly …I think the dislike of Bush may overide the offence intended!
Arab women are incredible lovers. You would not believe how incerdible. They keep themselves covered up for their own protection. I knew one once who was "westernised" but kept the ummmm….more private <br>repertoire going. She wore the traditional stuff in westerised moslem countries. She said that otherwise men do not respect them.
Here is another moslem joke told to me by this girl:
"did you hear the one about the white man who had a big penis?"<br>"No?
don’t worry……
nor did anyone else"
(Edited by GreenGreenDesert at 9:35 pm on Sep. 22, 2006)
Sorry GGD but you have to be joking to think that squaw should be considered a taboo word here. It’s dictionary definition (at least in my Concise Oxford Dictionary is simply that of "N. American woman or wife" . Nobody in this country uses it in the derogatory sense that you attach to the word. To suggest that we should all now avoid this word because of your extreme sensitivity to a word which 99.99999999921567% of Brits find harmless is totally unrealistic.<br>It’s great to have someone on the forum such as you who has strong opinions on a number of subjects, many of which which I can agree with you (fox hunting for example), but on the word "squaw" ? Do you look for a battle on even the most miniscule of subjects?<br>This is the UK not the USA. Whatever squaw means over there, it has no derogatory implication or intention over here when said by a Brit. There are probably numerous innocent words in common use in Britain that, in other countries might have a different and offensive meaning. Does that mean we should trawl through the English dictionary and then try and find them so that we eradicate their use? Of course not. Same applies to squaw.<br>
GGD
Have a look at:
http://legendarysurfers.com/naw/blog/20 … art-1.html
Not as straightforward as you persist to insist is it?
Yes I have researched my ancestry and suffice to say I’m very proud of it.
I am well aware that the sekwheh sound, and similar, is relating to female anything.
That is not my contention. If you read that passage carefully it is about reclaiming the word. She is NOT opposed to eradicating it from WHITE place names.
For hundreds of years the word was, and is, used in a derogatory and patronising fashion by white Amercians and british.
the fact that british people are still unaware of the context of how it is used that cause offence, is no defence. 99% of british people saw nothing wrong with "ni…r  up until a few tears ago. Most felt it just mant balck man, smoene from negeria, etc. it wasn’t years ago intended to carry offence; "wog" the same. golloiwog had a nice connetation to it. Yes…I can see that these words are not designed in everyday use to cause offence…many old people still use them.
But MOST native women DO find it offensive WHEN used by white men. <br>You can argue this point till you are blue in the face….but you know deep down you would never adress an aboriginal woman with it. You may use "w*g" behind close doors…but NEVER in the company of black people.
I know full well it is just a descriptive term for an Indian woman in English. But 150 years of abuse if that word by english speaking people in the USA means for them it is an insult.
Much the same as it is okay for a bangladeshi to say the "p*ki shop", but because of the actions of the BNP and their use of the word…it is now no longer nice for us to use it.
Used to be okay until "p*ki b****d was used every time one got on the end of a skinhead kicking.  I used to be a skinhead. After the NF I grew my hair becsue I did not want to antagonise people. i lived I st pauls in bristiol and saw fear on peoples face . It wasn’t nice. A rasta once approached me and mentioned my union jack jacket. I pointed out he was in red gold and green. Then he looked at my hair, and so I looked at his. Yes he said…but rastas don’t go around giving kickings to white kids. " I still wore the jacket….but grew my hair before I did.<br>Sadly the flag for me will be the green jack until we get rid of this government. Do you have ANY idea how difficult it is to get Canadian aboriginal confidence on the net when approached by british people since Blair and his absurd and racist attitude to the  aboriginal fur trade? I once contacted a lady who makes the most beautiful shawls. At first she was SO guarded. When she got to know me she confessed the only previous contact she had had from a Brition was from an English schoolboy who sent her abusive and condemning emails over her use of otter fur in cermonial head dresses. So now my flag is the Green Jack.
Sometimes…and only sometimes…it is wise not to upset people just for the sake of it. If you say "squaw" to most native american girls…it really, really upsets them. <br>Not becuse of the word…but because it signifies that you may look down on them.
Deep down you all know that. And you wouldn’t use it if one was here. You wouldn’t use kraut or nip either would you?
"Come and suck my D*** squaw" was how many teenage young first nations girls encountered the word used by white people…and sadly sometimes still is.
However. I am now….just to show you I am NOT being a spoilsport…pleased to unveil to you the very wonderful Ashlee Kahsaklahwee, Cherokee Native rights lawyer, fur wearing, conservationist, animal rescue glamour model. The ULTIMATE thinking man’s pin up:
http://www.ashleyskin.com/index2.htm
For me the world’s most beautiful woman; and very possibly one of the world’s most intelligent women; nice to see REAL women’s liberation in action.Ashely, despite her education and her standing in society, still refers to herself as a REZ girl. Not advisable for white men to call her that though.:o
Check out her galleries.All of them. Really. Respect.
(Edited by GreenGreenDesert at 2:12 am on Sep. 23, 2006)
<br>(Edited by GreenGreenDesert at 2:19 am on Sep. 23, 2006)<br>
(Edited by GreenGreenDesert at 2:23 am on Sep. 23, 2006)
I can’t get much of my heritage far back; some to the 12th century…but that is only one part…but it is the Dent part. According to my late grandmother we go back to celtic warlords. But stumped on the records before 1816…miners back until 1870 and thatchers and blacksmiths before that. Oh and a horsebus driver. Lots of military too….at the NCO level nearly all…. crimea, rourkes Drift, and the world wars.
My girlfriend however has Titus Oates in one part of her family:o In another line though she is reputedly descended from an Iceni warlord. She is from Kent, and has the what is thought of as Iceni look….long dark thin hair, elongated limbs, tall, and blue eyes. But that is pure speculation…and only family heresay as far as I can see.
How about you Drone…anything interesting?
Anyone else? Possibly a subject for a different thread actually.
No more to discuss DD. You have your opinions, I have mine. All is opinion.
Pejorative racial terms have never bothered me. What I find most sad is that Gollywogs have to be referred to as Gollys, the Little Black Sambo children’s books are frowned upon nowadays; and the reference to and drawings of ‘darkies’ in Rupert the Bear has led some pc cretin to question whether author/painter and thoroughly decent man Alfred Bestall was a closet racist/fascist. All that charming childhood innocence lost.
Much as I enjoy your posts and agree/empathise with much you write you do tend to come across as tiresomely patronising at times. Whilst your evolution from skinhead yobbo into artistic member of the country set is to be applauded, the reformed (cf drink, baccy, drugs) do tend to go over the top with their born-again evangelism.
Do you think Weatherbys should be informed about Ben De Haan’s Indian Sq**w after all I’m sure they wouldn’t allow a horse to be named Indian ****.
Cheers
The Drone (part-nigger with attitude)
Dunno about all the mystique mumbo jumbo but that Ashley bird is a babe! Totally.<br>
Ain’y she jusy?
Your depiction of skinheads as yobbos is a stereotype theat flies in the face of the great contribution to society that this subculture has made. The whole ska movement and the first young white to integrate with blacks for example. I habituated the blues clubs in St.Pauls in bristol.
I agree that pc taken to tehse extremes are stupid. certainly you cannot apply modern morality to past cultures in any case.
However….it is NOT a matter of opinion that sq is offensive to native American women. It is…in the same way that using n****r would be to most black people WHEN used by most white people. That s all I am saying. I do not beleive in censorship. If you label someone like Ashley as a sq then you demean what she does.
Most will take offence. That is a fact. Not an opinion.
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