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Though we were all guilty of criticising her at one time or another, doesn’t this show again what a feat it was for Hen Knight to get Best Mate to win three Gold Cups- I have my doubts if I’ll see that again in my lifetime in today’s age of highly competitive racing.
It seems difficult enough just to line up in a big race three years in a row but to win 3 Gold Cups back-to-back is exceptional. Whilst the King George might not have the same status as Cheltenham’s blue riband event I rate Kauto’s 3 KGs every bit as highly.
Not more ‘if horse x was taken out of the race, horse y would have won easily’ nonsense. The fact is the Pipe horse did run and made Denman look distinctly ordinary in the process. Far more laughable than suggesting that the runner-up is past his best is the assumption that Saturday’s finishing distances were in any way representative of the horses’ relative abilities.
I apologies if making a valid point offended you and you think my post was nonsense.
I did say if the Pipe horse had not run then punters would believe Denman was as good as ever. I was not suggesting for one minute anyone ignore the fact he hammered Denman.
If you disagree with the point I made by all means say so but please don’t put words into my mouth.
Only a matter of time before Denman is also scratched from this year’s Gold Cup.
I totally agree, the signs are not very positive. The horse gave everything last year I think he just wants an easy life now, kick back relax and to be pamperd.
Doubt if PN would agree there
We can’t always believe what we read nor can we be expected to know everything that is happening behind the scenes.
If we can take PN’s word for it Denman has come out of the race OK and there aim is to concentrate on getting him ready for the Gold Cup.
The fact he have scratched him from his years National is a little surprising.
The amount of work they will have to put into the horse, to get him right, between now and March is probably as much as they want to do with him this season. If he comes round and actually gets to Cheltenham then he can put him away until next year.
If he doesn’t make it then agian he will put him awa to fight another day.
I think they will do everything in their power to get him as fit as they possibly can. If he is only 95% right they have to and probably will run him.
Findlay and Barber are convinced Denman is the best in the country and I wouldn’t want to try and tell them their horse needs to be 100% fit to win the Gold Cup.
They would be he first to point out Kauto Star could jump his way out of the race and there is no guarantee Neptune Collonges will reapeat his good run of last year.
I hope he continues to show no ill effects of his heart trouble and we see the old Denman back and fighting for his crown come March.
Though we were all guilty of criticising her at one time or another, doesn’t this show again what a feat it was for Hen Knight to get Best Mate to win three Gold Cups- I have my doubts if I’ll see that again in my lifetime in today’s age of highly competitive racing.
I agree with you entirely. They were by no means great Gold Cups but to get him there in one piece and actually win three? Amazing.
What could be even more amazing is if Kuato Star can regain the Gold Cup. Add that to 3 King George’s. Could there even be a 4th?
I doubt if any if us will be around to see that happen again if he pulls it off.
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Aristo, you questioned the validity of the argument that Denman ran disappointingly by putting forward the suggestion that some (you didn’t distance yourself from, or include yourself in, this group) might view his performance without Madison Du Berlais as acceptable, or even encouraging. All I did was state, somewhat categorically, that such a standpoint is ‘nonsense’ because it relies on theory and prediction on the basis of a race we’ve already seen.
Madison Du Berlais
was
in the race and Denman
was
beaten easily. What’s the point of pretending otherwise?
Listening to Harry Findlay’s phone conversation with Lydia Hislop earlier on Racing UK, he gave the distinct impression of a man having already accepted his fate, as regards to Denman retaining his Gold Cup crown.
He was not confident of his horse’s Gold Cup chances at all, and even used the words (alluding to Cheltenham) – if he makes there. Hmmm ?
He said he wouldn’t even back Denman each way and would probably back Neptune Collonges e.w. instead – saying that he still doubted Kauto Star’s ability to stay three and a quarter miles round Cheltenham.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
I wonder if you could equate Denman to Michael Phelps*: been there, done that, bit of down time making you realise that there’s more to life than work….
* For those that don’t know, Mr Phelps was caught smoking a spliff and has been banned fron swimming for 3 months- you can back him with me to repeat the feats of Beijing…
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Unless Denman has been caught behind the stables slipping carefully concealed notes to an ungainly hooded figure, Carv, I’d have thought your comparison is a fairly loose one!
Harry Findlay did suggest though that there was little doubt that Sam Thomas would ride Denman in the Gold Cup, which is a marked move from the evasive approach he adopted on ATR at the weekend. The situation gets more confusing by the day but are they now clutching at straws, hoping that Thomas gets more from the horse than Walsh?
Though we were all guilty of criticising her at one time or another, doesn’t this show again what a feat it was for Hen Knight to get Best Mate to win three Gold Cups- I have my doubts if I’ll see that again in my lifetime in today’s age of highly competitive racing.
I’ve never criticised Henrietta Knight or Paul Nicholls. ( I’m not knowlegable enough to do so.)
I think in his first book that Nick Mordin wrote that athletes can only peak twice a year, and that taking from that, trainers should only race "their" horses twice a year.
Isn’t there still a possibility that Kauto could win this year and next?
After Saturday’s display and the training problems he’s had, I think if he were mine I’d call it a day for this season, let him down properly to give him a chance to get over last season’s GC mentally, and bring him back next year. He’d still only be a ten-year-old, which for a big Irish-bred like him is hardly OAP status.
As a massive Kauto fan I’d love to see him regain the GC, and given good ground I think he’s got a decent chance of doing so, but even if he does I fear he’ll be damned with faint praise and accused of being a ‘default’ winner by some.
I thank the connections for quickly letting everyone know about the National.I hope Denman can come back.
If you go to back a certainty always buy a return ticket.
Though we were all guilty of criticising her at one time or another, doesn’t this show again what a feat it was for Hen Knight to get Best Mate to win three Gold Cups- I have my doubts if I’ll see that again in my lifetime in today’s age of highly competitive racing.
I’m lucky Carvillshill as I’ve seen two triple Gold Cup Winners, a Dual Gold Cup Winner, a Gold Cup winning National Winner and a triple Grand National winner and the only grey ever to win the Gold Cup
Save the anoraks the bother, I am talking about Arkle, Best Mate, L’Escargot (for two of the above), Red Rum and Desert Orchid. Can’t quite remember how many multiple Champion Hurdlers, but saw in defeat the horse I consider the best hurdler ever, Persian War.
I’m sure I’m not the only one.
. Can’t quite remember how many multiple Champion Hurdlers, but saw in defeat the horse I consider the best hurdler ever, Persian War.
Someone will be along in a minute to tell that Istabraq would have done him for toe.
Someone will be along in a minute to tell that Istabraq would have done him for toe.
Istabraq WOULD have done him for toe.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Someone will be along in a minute to tell that Istabraq would have done him for toe. :)
Istabraq WOULD have done him for toe.
Persian War was that tough that he would have come back at Istabraq and nicked it off him again
Someone will be along in a minute to tell that Istabraq would have done him for toe.
Istabraq WOULD have done him for toe.
Told ya
Look winning the Gold Cup again would be great, but its not the be all and end all for the horse. There are plenty of conditions races over the next 2 or 3 years that he can run in and do well and even races like the Hennessy. I agree with the comment about putting him away because he probably needs a proper "pre-season" like the rest of Nicholls horses, not being brought back late and trying to play catch up. He may not be the horse he was, but can still find plenty of pots to collect yet.
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