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Is there an end of season to the Jumps like cricket replaces football in the summer.
Theres got to be a threshold where flat takes precedence over jumping but having found myself unusally sky plussing ATR to watch the Punchestown Festival I’m regaled with racing from Newton Abbott, Exeter Kelso and tens of other NH tracks with horses I’ve never heard of, trainers I’ve never seen before in my life, rock hard surfaces with the sun high in the sky and very very uncompetitive racing.
Punchestown I can understand its an end of season meet in a part of the world that usually has the best going as Heavy and an evening meet bringing together all the players that Irish might have missed out on having not got to Cheltenham. That should bring the curtain down and personalities and horses make like cricketers in September and footballers in May.
For the life of me I cant see any point in sending horses over a 3 mile steeplechase course where you can see the dust is bouncing the shadows are short and the privot fences are as dry as sticks.
When does the flat take over and jumping cease, its damaging the sport.
Theres no transtiton from one code to another.I enjoy each code as equally as the other when its in full flight.
I side towards National Hunt in winter mid season and ready for it come October but this summer stuff is diluting it all to the depriment of them both.Because it gives those horses you’ve never heard of a chance for their day in the sun…
Although I must admit that you do have a point. Those 0-95 handicap hurdles at Worcester are really detrimental to this year’s Epsom Derby as well as next season’s Champion Chase for some reason.
Apologies posted in the wrong section, defaulted to this area
when I logged in although it might have been an intended slip jumping at speed off firm ground going to cause casualtiesNewton Abbot is a track that usually manages to provide reasonably good summer ground. You didn`t mention the track that produced, in my view, unacceptable ground yesterday – Wincanton. No idea why they have fixtures at this time of the year. But for the odd other meeting NA is mainly summer oriented and does a pretty good job of it.
Totally agree Jibsa you only have to look at what the unusually hot weather on Grand National Day did to Ballabriggs and a lot of the other horses who ran to know that hot days and firm ground are not good for the welfare of racehorses, and if they water it doesn’t help much and could make things worse if they don’t water evenly.
NH should take at least a 3 month break during June, July and August, the flat racing stables have to tone down during the winter with only All Weather courses available to them, can you imagine flat racing continuing through December, January and February.
I would like to see it revert back to the traditional NH and Flat Season as it was some years back…Jac
Things turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...I don’t 100% agree that summer ground is too dangereous for NH racing. The terribly hard going on almost all courses in March and April proved that it’s just as possible to get unsuitable going whilst well within the winter season. And some years the "summer" weather we get produces lovely easy ground, even very soft ground at times. It’s not necessarily the time of year that’s the problem, it’s our crazy British weather!
But I do agree that there should be an enforced break at some stage during the summer. At least a month, maybe two, and make the end of the official jumps season the start of it, even if it means changing the date of the season’s end to coincide. I do find it really weird to have the official end of season, and then the "new season" of jump racing just carries straight on the next day.
I often think when checking out form and see that a horse has been running frequently over a long time, and getting progressively poorer results,"Oh, for crying out loud, give that poor horse a break!". Having said that, some horses do seem to thrive on regular and frequent runs, and take a long time to get their act together after a long break. They are all different.
So I think 1 or 2 months is sufficient. Maybe around June would be good, restarting in time for evening meetings for the holidaymakers.
Totally agree Jibsa you only have to look at what the unusually hot weather on Grand National Day did to Ballabriggs and a lot of the other horses who ran to know that hot days and firm ground are not good for the welfare of racehorses, and if they water it doesn’t help much and could make things worse if they don’t water evenly.
NH should take at least a 3 month break during June, July and August, the flat racing stables have to tone down during the winter with only All Weather courses available to them, can you imagine flat racing continuing through December, January and February.
I would like to see it revert back to the traditional NH and Flat Season as it was some years back…JacTotally agree with Jibsa and Triptych.
There is only so much that watering can do.
The firmer the ground, the faster horses race.
The firmer the ground, the harder surfaces are to fall on.
The firmer the ground, the greater velocity horse and jockey have on impact.
The firmer the ground, the more injuries and fatalities to horse and jockey.
The firmer ground is far more likely when temperatures are more likely to be hot.
The firmer ground is far more likely in Summer, so…Ban Summer jumping in June, July and August!
Value Is EverythingI don`t think you guys have ever been Summer jump racing. If you were at Worcester last night you would have seen many people and families enjoying BBQ`s, parties in marquees ,decent standard of racing,all the main trainers represented,all the main jockeys considering there was jumping on elsewhere.
The going in May June is often better than April.
If youv`e never been to the Summer National meeting at Uttoxeter and the excellent Summer plate meetings at Market Rasen you`ve missed a treat.
The prizes for these two meetings are good as well and the money starved NH industry needs all it can getI don`t think you guys have ever been Summer jump racing. If you were at Worcester last night you would have seen many people and families enjoying BBQ`s, parties in marquees ,decent standard of racing,all the main trainers represented,all the main jockeys considering there was jumping on elsewhere.
The going in May June is often better than April.
If youv`e never been to the Summer National meeting at Uttoxeter and the excellent Summer plate meetings at Market Rasen you`ve missed a treat.
The prizes for these two meetings are good as well and the money starved NH industry needs all it can getDefine "often" Roddy.
April this year was an unusually dry month compared to most Aprils, so there were more race meetings under firmish conditions. But we must surely judge things by
average
ground conditions. And the average April meeting (in the last 10 years) is run on softer ground than the average June meeting.
I don’t care if everyone at Worcester and Uttoxetter enjoy themselves, and/or the standard of racing is good (though most of it isn’t), and/or that National Hunt needs it or not. Summer jumping provides too high a price for horses and jockeys (imo).
Value Is EverythingHave you ever been Summer jumping? Are you assuming a lot here,like jockeys not enjoying it. Who has told you that. Most jockeys I know including the champ welcome it.
Always been summer jumping here in Ireland, some courses like Kilbeggan and Galway only race in the summer/autumn. I don’t have a problem with it myself, once there’s good grass cover and the ground has been watered it is often better than in march or april on courses where they’ve been racing all winter.
So I think 1 or 2 months is sufficient. Maybe around June would be good, restarting in time for evening meetings for the holidaymakers.
June! Just in time for Wimbledon and The Derby then.
Aside from the most important thing, the welfare of the horse and jockey, Summer National Hunt just doesnt look right. It has no reasonable right to be a spectator sport in Summer Months. Mcoy said on the ML he’d welcome 2-3 months off after Sandown but cant say no to owners in case he’s jocked off come the real racing.
The Great North Run for us humans used to be run in June but 3 runners had died from heat exhaustion and many were taken ill. And this is Tyneside! Its now ran mid september and guess what, no more casualties but heh these are only horses and they shoot horses dont they?
Have you ever been Summer jumping? Are you assuming a lot here,like jockeys not enjoying it. Who has told you that. Most jockeys I know including the champ welcome it.
Yes Roddy, I have been once and once was enough at Fontwell. Had to go passed the course on my way back from a John Dunlop Open Day, so thought I’d better see what it was like (against my better judgement).
I never said anything about jockeys not enjoying it. Though suspect the top jocks wouldn’t mind a break. I don’t "assume" anything Roddy. Have you asked the "Champ" himself? Because, as others have said, last time I heard, AP would welcome a Summer break. Am sure journeyman jocks are very pleased to get any rides they can, despite the risks. It’s all money in the pocket for them.
I just believe it should be taken out of their hands; as in my opinion, the "price to both horse and jockey are too high".
Value Is Everything2011 NSA schedule for the summer:
Philadelphia Park Bensalem, PA Sun, Jun. 05
Colonial Downs New Kent, VA Sun, Jun. 12
Penn National Grantville, PA Fri, Jun. 17
Colonial Downs New Kent, VA Sun, Jun. 26
Belmont Park Elmont, NY Sun, Jul. 03
Saratoga Open House Saratoga Springs, NY Sun, Jul. 17
Saratoga Saratoga Springs, NY Thu, Jul. 28
Saratoga Saratoga Springs, NY Thu, Aug. 04
Saratoga Saratoga Springs, NY Thu, Aug. 11
Saratoga Saratoga Springs, AL Thu, Aug. 18
Saratoga Saratoga Springs, NY Thu, Aug. 25
Saratoga Saratoga Springs, NY Thu, Sep. 01The summer is when American steeplechasing moves from the countryside to the tighter, firmer courses usually used for flat racing. Yet I can’t recall the last time there was a fatality, or even a major injury, at any of these races in the summer.
I think the reason summer jumping in the UK is more dangerous is that the horses are of lesser quality and probably less experienced, so they make more mistakes and thus injure themselves more. On the other hand, only the best horses race at Saratoga. Snow and frozen ground makes it impossible to hold any steeplechase meets (or any turf racing outside of the southernmost states/California) from late November through early March.
So I think 1 or 2 months is sufficient. Maybe around June would be good, restarting in time for evening meetings for the holidaymakers.
June! Just in time for Wimbledon and The Derby then. {quote]
Er..Yes Jibsa, June. Meaning around June being the best time for the break if you bothered to read it properly
As you pointed out, lots of sporting things happening in June, and as apparently suggested by the champ, having the break from just after Sandown until sometime in July. That’s pretty well what I was suggesting in the first place.
As for the heat question, I don’t think that would be a worry today, and it’s nearly june now. Nothing like the terrible heat we had around the time of the GNat Aintree meeting in… oh yes, early April wasn’t it?
So I think 1 or 2 months is sufficient. Maybe around June would be good, restarting in time for evening meetings for the holidaymakers.
June! Just in time for Wimbledon and The Derby then. {quote]
Er..Yes Jibsa, June. Meaning around June being the best time for the break if you bothered to read it properly
As you pointed out, lots of sporting things happening in June, and as apparently suggested by the champ, having the break from just after Sandown until sometime in July. That’s pretty well what I was suggesting in the first place.
As for the heat question, I don’t think that would be a worry today, and it’s nearly june now. Nothing like the terrible heat we had around the time of the GNat Aintree meeting in… oh yes, early April wasn’t it?
Phew!…. 2nd June. Its hotter than a greeks jockstrap
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