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I was lucky enough to be shown round Warren Place during the reign of Frankel, and one thing I’ll never forget was Sir Henry explaining how he chose the bedding for the stables.
He requested samples from at least half a dozen suppliers and spent an hour in a loose box, throwing handfuls of them into the air in turn to see how much dust each one gave off (too much dust being bad for a horse’s respiratory system and so having a potentially adverse affect on its performance). The least dusty one was the one he ordered.
That level of attention to detail is one of the things that made him so great.
What a lovely insight! Thanks for sharing.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
I tend to find Haggas does well at Royal Ascot. He normally has some improving three year old that pops up in the Jersey stakes or some other race and wins or goes close to winning.
But yes I take your point about Storm the stars, I did find his campaigning last year rather odd, I recall them saying at the time “this horse just thrives on his racing” as justification for running him so much,
As if he’s kicking the stable door down if Haggas hasn’t run him for a week.
I don’t think he got home in the St Leger anyway, but it couldn’t have helped that they ran him so often.
Actually that reminds me rather of Alan King and his horses like Katchit and so on, you felt they didn’t have lengthy careers because there was a case of just getting the most out of them while he could
So basically the main skills of a racehorse trainer is just to not make terrible mistakes
Cormack15: On a related topic – what would you guess the ‘barrier to entry’ is for a racehorse trainer in financial terms? In other words, how much cash would you need to set up? I once saw a figure of £250k mentioned many years ago but I’d guess it is significantly more than that, especially in and around Newmarket.
Routes into training look easier in Nation Hunt than the Flat. Paths similar to Jenny Pitman’s are still viable today: set up to look after a few horses on a Summer break, a Winter break, a gradual recuperation after injury. Or possibly the goodwill and tolerance of, or a family relationship to, a farmer with barn space and pasture to spare and an agreed percentage of the income.
There is a piece of grassland in Derbyshire, on a slight incline, 1550 yards by 30 yards, for sale at £5,000. Freehold, no rent! A new block of six transportable pre-fab stables can be had for about £8,000. A secondhand caravan for under £1,000. Enough tack and equipment for £5,000. Probably the price of a new Ford Mondeo in total.
What is priceless, and absolutely necessary, is the support of an owner who will pay the ongoing bills through training fees. As is also a mindset that says you will have at least ten years slog building your reputation, but know you have the physical and mental toughness to do it.
The other type of starting point, which might lead to the £250,000 + eventual cost, is to win the tough competition to convince Messrs O’Brien, Johnston, O’Meara, Hannon, Hills, Gosden, and the benighted Stoute and Prescott, that you have what it takes to start as a lowly assistant, through the higher assistant ranks to be a success as a trainer. Even then, not many of those make it to the heights of a fully-fledge trainer.
I am fairly sure that money is not the biggest barrier to starting a training career. It is more likely to be convincing the right people that you are more than capable.
Didn’t Paul Nicholls write a letter to Paul Barber suggesting he take him on as a trainer at his Ditcheat stables. Don’t think Nicholls himself put any money up or could even afford to at the time
The rest is history
I guess to be a successful racehorse trainer you have to have some entrepreneurial spirit
Fadillah scrambled home at 8/15 off 76 in a handicap. The jockey reported that she lost a shoe but she would have won this hard held in Gary Glitter platform shoes if she were truly an Oaks filly.
The racing press waffled on that she “Remained unbeaten” and talked of the the Ribblesdale, which is a bit like describing Dunkirk as a “Tactical Withdrawal”
If she is an Oaks winner in the making, it’s surely in Afghanistan.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
I think she looked like the type who could be a lot better than what the performance showed, but Oaks winner a big fat no.
By the way that Godolphin horse Blair house which won a bit later on the card, now that looks a serious racehorse…
Hi everyone, I am new here, hope you don’t mind me butting in. This is a really interesting topic, and don’t think it’s a daft subject at all. I worked in racing for many years, in top yards in a couple of different countries, and agree with almost everything that people have put forward here as what makes a trainer: in short, many, many small things. The only other point I’d make is that, in my experience, some of the most successful (winning-most) trainers may not be the best (people that I would send a horse to). In NH racing, it’s especially interesting to see the jumping tuition – perhaps Skelton brought insight to Nicholls, but he seems to do a lot of jumping over small fences in the school, and takes time to develop the muscles and agility (mental agility too). Contrast that to Mullins’ comment on RUK, which was (more or less word for word), ‘I don’t school much. Horses can either jump or they can’t, and the risk of injury is too great’. That suggest to me that Mullins sees schooling as galloping down to fences at speed, and that lack of finesse rules him out as a great trainer to me – yet look at his success rate (and faller rate mind you). That raises another question – is Mullins just a quite good trainer (I’m being a little facetious, but just to make the point), but currently extremely successful due to the jockey and owner combination at this point in time? He is, after all, not a young man – has he suddenly worked out how to be a great trainer (i.e. all conquering, as opposed to just successful), or is he enjoying a purple patch due, to some extent, to chance (or business acumen). It’s very hard to know for sure.
Welcome to the forum Louise, and feel free to butt in whenever you want. You make some
interesting points, there’s no doubt that Mullins has benefited greatly from the
services of Ruby and the seemingly endless depths of Mr Ricci’s wallet, and a few others.
I can’t really make a lot of comment on his schooling methods, I don’t know enough about
them, but it’s interesting to consider your views, you having an insight into the industry
from the inside.Personally I think Mullins has always been a top trainer, I think he learned his trade well
from his father Paddy and Jim Bolger, it’s just the tide has turned of late with the likes of
Nicholls and Henderson not having a stranglehold on the Mr Ricci’s of this world.He’s certainly not an easy man to second guess, he’s caused plenty of controversy on this
forum by playing his cards close to his chest, in particular at the festival, but like him
or loath him for that you can’t ignore his record. I don’t think that’s simply down to the
owners, but they certainly don’t harm his chances.Hi everyone, I am new here, hope you don’t mind me butting in. This is a really interesting topic, and don’t think it’s a daft subject at all. I worked in racing for many years, in top yards in a couple of different countries, and agree with almost everything that people have put forward here as what makes a trainer: in short, many, many small things. The only other point I’d make is that, in my experience, some of the most successful (winning-most) trainers may not be the best (people that I would send a horse to). In NH racing, it’s especially interesting to see the jumping tuition – perhaps Skelton brought insight to Nicholls, but he seems to do a lot of jumping over small fences in the school, and takes time to develop the muscles and agility (mental agility too). Contrast that to Mullins’ comment on RUK, which was (more or less word for word), ‘I don’t school much. Horses can either jump or they can’t, and the risk of injury is too great’. That suggest to me that Mullins sees schooling as galloping down to fences at speed, and that lack of finesse rules him out as a great trainer to me – yet look at his success rate (and faller rate mind you). That raises another question – is Mullins just a quite good trainer (I’m being a little facetious, but just to make the point), but currently extremely successful due to the jockey and owner combination at this point in time? He is, after all, not a young man – has he suddenly worked out how to be a great trainer (i.e. all conquering, as opposed to just successful), or is he enjoying a purple patch due, to some extent, to chance (or business acumen). It’s very hard to know for sure.
Yes good point Louise and this was the point I was trying to make but couldn’t express it as well
Actually I wonder with some trainer whether there are some “methods” that the general public are not privy to which helps to explain their success
then again I’m paranoid about most sports these days
In the case of Mullins yes his dominance is impressive, but he is getting the very best horses from France and as Nicholls said success goes in cycles
Fadillah – If she is an Oaks winner in the making, it’s surely in Afghanistan.
Listen here Steve, that’s where Aiden is sending Coolmore and I wont hear of defeat…….
Blackbeard to conquer the World
Fadillah – If she is an Oaks winner in the making, it’s surely in Afghanistan.
Listen here Steve, that’s where Aiden is sending Coolmore and I wont hear of defeat…….
She might bump into my donkey Best In The World over there. That’s a filly who never grew a millimetre over the winter and doesn’t seem to have trained on.
Aidan has a handful of good ones this year only I would say. I wonder what the flop to success ratio is for this Army of Galileos, War Fronts and Fastnet Rocks?
Coolmore is officially on the Caution Cusp regarding Bin or Boom at the moment and that bin lid is yawning hungrily and ominously
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Louise 12, you have an interesting point, but the theory perhaps behind your feeling that Willie Mullins schooling needs some consideration. Horses that arrive from France have had extensive schooling since 2 yr olds over small fences and probably don’t need endless jumping training. Having had horses in France the day to day work and schooling leaves our British trainers woefully behind.
Thank you for the friendly welcome everyone. Nice forum. Re: my comments on Mullins, this was a random example, meant to show that ‘what makes a trainer special’ can be subjective. That said, I don’t believe that extensive schooling as a 2yo would negate the need for ongoing jumping. Jump muscles need work, and the brain needs to be kept sharp. You wouldn’t find three day eventers or show jumpers only doing flatwork between competitions. Walsh has received a lot of criticism and comment for his last fence departures, but all are for one trainer. (Also Mullins has horses that are not French). It’s a personal view, that’s all. I fully accept that others won’t share it.
Totally agree Louise. It’s like anything, golf, tennis, constant repetition is needed.
Thing is Mullins horses are generally so quick and so powerful that they can plough through hurdles and not lose much momentum
a good example last year was thomas hobson- he was off the flat from Gosden, didn’t take the french route and was a horrible jumper. Didn’t stop him winning a decent race at Warwick though
Well done Hibs, just like William Haggas, they managed to land the Scottish Cup now that it has been downgraded to a Group 3
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
I am always intrigued as to why some trainers are better or appear better than others. Is it their training methods, feed, fitness or just their ability to get most out of the horse.
Total Recall is a good example. It was in the care of Sandra Hughes until 9 months ago and was unable to win off a mark of 130.
Willie Mullins takes over, first race off 129 wins as if he’s just joined in the race and second start wins the Henessey off 147 and is now being spoken of as a possible Gold Cup horse.
How as Mullins extracted so much improvement in 9 months that Hughes could not do. Is he that much better with his methods of was Hughes just an average trainer.
Is this why the top trainers have the best horses and people want to send them their horses.
Harry Fry is another example with unowhatimeanharry. Could not win off 123 for Helen Neimes yet ends up winning at Aintree and Punchestown festivals. Was Neimes that poor a trainer.Same as any sport there are people who are good at it and people who aren’t. Total recall isn’t the only Sandra Hughes horse to drastically improve for a move elsewhere. Sub Lieutenant is one other clear example, as is Phil’s Magic. Acapella bourgeois will also improve. It can’t be a coincidence that all of these horses improved for simply moving yards. Ben button moved from rothwell to Mullins earlier this year and made a laugh of the mark rothwell was able to get him to. Lagotovegas is another example from David Harry Kelly. Poormans hill is another example of a horse taken from a poorer trainer and given to Elliot. We see recently the ex Rebecca Curtis horses showing significantly improved form also. The Romford Pele is just an example from today. Kings Wharf was a horse Willie Mullins improved from 90 odd to 129 upon moving from L Smyth. This evidence just shows that there are people out there who couldn’t train ivy up a wall. Alan Fleming is another. Barry Connell spends millions on horses and then gets a sub standard trainer to train then. Mad behaviour. When horses have moved from fleming to other trainers they have shown improvement. Also on a slight tangent, John Breslin must own the highest number of useless horses in training, the majority with Tony Martin another who I think under-performs more often than not.
I often thought about what improvement could be made in top horses like O Faolins boy, Irish Cavalier, anibale Fly etc if they were with top trainers
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