- This topic has 13 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 11 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Today at Southwell, Robert Winston on Skiddaw View weighed in 2lb heavier than he had weighed out, and was banned for three days.
Two questions:
1. How can this possibly happen – what could make the jockey 2lb heavier in a space of 10 minutes or so?
2. Why should it be an offence?Dunno how he managed to gain the weight unless he had weights in his pockets!Deserves a fine as it leaves the everyday punter that backed the horse to win 2lb less likely to win!
- Total Posts 17716
You don’t think carrying too much weight, thereby reducing the horse’s chance of winning, should be an offence, Hippo Joe?
2lb is like carrying a bag of Tate and Lyle sugar! Its not something you can shove down the front of your trousers! I can just see the clerk of the scales saying to Robert Winston "Whats that down the front of your trousers? Or are you just pleased to see me"! 3 weeks minimum imo! Those eagle eyed Stewards dont miss a trick!!!!
You don’t think carrying too much weight, thereby reducing the horse’s chance of winning, should be an offence, Hippo Joe?
I dont think anyone has actually addressed the real point ‘Hippo’ is making. How on earth has he put on weight during a race, when common sense says, if anything, he’d lose weight? And if the ‘eagle-eyed’ stewards are so good at their jobs, how did they not notice he was carrying over-weight when he weighed out???
I dont think its an offence, unless he is actually deliberately concealing weight somewhere, in which case, he would be cheating, and should get a year. Unless thats the case, there is no way it can be judged to be an offence.And if the ‘eagle-eyed’ stewards are so good at their jobs, how did they not notice he was carrying over-weight when he weighed out???
That was the point i was making Aido! The only feasible reason is he weighed out heavy! Either that or the "Kickback" was a bit clumpy today in the fog! You never know what gets washed up on that beach!
The usual reasons are weighing out in a different set of kit to that you will ride in etc – paper boots, different protectors to deceive about overweight you will have to carry or having dehydrated so much that having a drink etc can add a surprising amount especially if weighed out really early.
One surprising thing that arose out of one enquiry is there was then (prob still) no camera recording the weigh out procedure, think in some cases may be ‘ticker tape’ evidence.
Remember Newbury when jockey (Michael Murphy ?) weighed in exactly a stone light and no one could prove what he had weighed out at.Unlikely to apply on feathery fibresand, but on a rain-soaked afternoon on yielding turf I’d have thought weighing-in slightly heavy would be quite common, weighing-out as they do dry and clean but returning soaked and mud-splattered
Is any weight-gain allowance made in these circumstances?
Armchair, what I meant with my original post was: Why should it be an offence if it is accidental (or incidental), i.e. the jockey didn’t intend to come back heavy.
The fact that Robert Winston was suspended suggests that the stewards thought he had misled them about his original weight, which Richard Hoiles threw some light upon in his post about paper boots.
On the subject of weight, I have been involved in this sport for many decades, and I have a copy of Barry Brogan’s autobiography.
In it he says that he often carried less weight than he should have done when the money was down. He said that one day at Kelso he hid a stone of lead behind the weighing room door on his way out, and picked it up again on his way back to the scales after the race.
That was in the 1960s, since when security has increased, I am sure.
Like many important things in our "great" sport the silence about such incidents from Roy, Coward, Struthers & Co is deafening.
Races clashing for no apparent reason, stewards enquiries like the one at Huntingdon last week determined solely by which track they happen at and jockeys weighing in light and heavy regularly throughout the year.
While jockeys weighing in heavy is bad enough, jockeys weighing in light, when a horse can be disqualified for the jockey being a bag of sweets too light is a much greater threat to the integrity of the sport yet we hear nothing from the masters of our sport.And if the ‘eagle-eyed’ stewards are so good at their jobs, how did they not notice he was carrying over-weight when he weighed out???
That was the point i was making Aido! The only feasible reason is he weighed out heavy! Either that or the "Kickback" was a bit clumpy today in the fog! You never know what gets washed up on that beach!
Sorry mate, I must be a bit slow today!!! I live and learn
From Cheltenham this year.
On a report from the Clerk of the Scales that Denis O’Regan, the rider of Arcalis, placed second, had weighed in 3 lbs heavier than he had weighed out, the Stewards interviewed O’Regan, in the presence of J. Howard Johnson, the trainer, and the Clerk of the Scales. Having heard their evidence the Stewards found O’Regan to be in breach of Rule (B)67.7, and suspended him for 3 days as follows:- Saturday 3rd, Sunday 4th and Monday 5th April
I think this lead to O’Regan losing his job. I did e-mail the BHA and got a reply as to how it could happen. Quite incredible it can happen in a 2 mile hurdle. I think they allow a jockey 1lb either way, but you would expect having ridden in a fast run 2 mile hurdle to have lost a litte as opposed to putting it on.
If I can retreive the e-mail with the explanation given by the BHA I will post it here.
Basically it deprives the punter of a level palying field. I would go as far as to say it is cheating
Here is the reply from the BHA
Thank you for your email regarding Arcalis which has been forwarded to me by the team at Channel 4 racing.
Jockeys have a 2lb leeway when weighing back in after a race. This is based on studies for what are reasonable amounts in given circumstances – ie. A jockey might weigh in 2lb light on a very hot day due to perspiration, or 2lb heavy on a very wet day due to rain and mud.
However, when a jockey breaches these conditions, they are brought before the Stewards. The Rules of Racing state :
67.6 To compensate for being required to wear a body protector, the weight of a Rider on weighing in will automatically be allowed at 2lbs less than the weight that is registered on the scale (factored into the calibration of the Weighing Room scales).
67.7 Where a Rider weighs in at 2lbs or more over the weight at which he weighed out, he will be reported to the Stewards but the horse will not be disqualified.
67.8 All weights will be rounded down to the nearest 1lb unit.For more information see here
The penalties for weighing in light/heavy are available to see online: http://newrules.britishhorseracing.com//Penalties
A jockey that weighs in more than 2lb over their allotted weight is given a minimum suspension of three days.
The Stewards at Cheltenham did not take Denis O’Regan’s situation lightly. Their report reads as follows:
On a report from the Clerk of the Scales that Denis O’Regan, the rider of Arcalis, placed second, had weighed in 3 lbs heavier than he had weighed out, the Stewards interviewed O’Regan, in the presence of J. Howard Johnson, the trainer, and the Clerk of the Scales. Having heard their evidence the Stewards found O’Regan to be in breach of Rule (B)67.7, and suspended him for 3 days as follows:- Saturday 3rd, Sunday 4th and Monday 5th April.
Unfortunately Mr O’Regan did not offer an explanation for this and so I am an unable to give a reason as to how he did it but given that the horse had a very light weight, it is suspected that he weighed out without the full kit on as he was unable to do 10st 4lb. This can be done by not using proper kit and although the Clerks of the Scales are aware of this practice and do look out for it, it is very difficult to police. It is for this reason that we have stringent Rules against such practice.
I hope that this response answers your query.
Kind regards
Turia Tellwright Communications Officer
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.