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Cheltenham is massively overhyped and actually really bad for the NH season.
– Horses ducking and diving all season to be ready for it
– Horses ducking and diving when they get there because there are a so many options still
– Skelton and others giving their handicappers the Langer Dan treatment all season and the handicapper just lapping it up and dropping them at will
– some really ordinary races there too
– small fields
– terrible raceday experience if you go
pinnacle of the season my arse.Istabraq was vastly overrated (Timeform have him on 180 alongside Monksfield) for beating some very average opponents imho. And how Limestone Lad got to 177 (alongside Constitution Hill and 2lbs ahead of Sea Pigeon on 175) is another baffling one too.
Seperately, the problem with the ratings Arkle (212) and Flyingbolt (210) got in comparison to NH chasers of recent years is that outside of the King George and Gold Cup there were very few (if any) level weight races for them to run in, so they mainly ran in the big handicaps (both side of the Irish Sea) giving huge lumps of weight away and still winning.
Whereas now baring one or two very few exceptions the top NH horses are running in level weight races (or reverse handicaps as I like to call them) facing rivals that would likely be in receipt of 14lbs or more if it were a handicap. For me that is why I gravitated to Denman more than Kauto Star because of his two top weight carrying winning performances in the old Hennessy, even though Kauto Star was clearly the more naturally talented and versatile of the two.
If you look up some of the achievements of Arkle (and Flyingbolt who doesn’t get close to the recognition he deserves) they were absolutely freakish in nature. Arkle thrashed Mill House in the Gallagher Gold Cup at Sandown, I believe giving him something like 16lbs and he broke the 3m course record doing it (a record that still stands to this day) and yes Mill House probably wasn’t the same force of old when Arkle beat him in his 1st Gold Cup win but could you even begin to imagine Kauto Star trying to do the same thing against Denman!
The saturation of level weight races for the top horse will now never allow a horse to even begin to reach Arkle and Flyingbolt’s lofty Timeform ratings – Sprinter Sacre (192), Mill House and Kauto Star (both on 191) have all managed to get into 190s and I would personally have had Dessie on in that club too, probably at 190 instead of the 187 he currently sits on.
Some excellent points made so far, and here are three with which I agree wholeheartedly:
1. (Thanks to @Cork-All-Star ) There is no way that both Arkle and Flyingbolt, while undoubtedly brilliant, were twenty pounds better than any National Hunt horse of the last sixty years.
2. (Thanks to @LD73 ) Istabraq was overrated (name one top-class horse he beat).
3. (Thanks to @TheTinMan87 ) The bloated behemoth that is the current Cheltenham “festival” is ruinous to the winter game.
By the way, a close fourth was @graysonscolumn ‘s assertion that Sir Peter O’Sullevan was overrated; I put Sir Peter’s longevity down to what I call “Richard Whiteley Syndrome” – he’s been there since the year dot so, no matter how crap he is, he has a job for life.
The Peter O’Sullevan shout is the clear #1
I’d argue that Cheltenham doesn’t qualify, given the 800 odd threads on here alone on the topic………it’s a popular opinion, not unpopular
Great idea for a thread G. I’d be here all night with mine
2. (Thanks to @LD73 ) Istabraq was overrated (name one top-class horse he beat).
I think what made the Istabraq story so popular was the fact that he was recommended by the late John Durkan who sadly died from leukemia in 1998 at a very young age. Apart from that I’m still quite adamant that French Holly was the best horse he beat. He fell twice when in contention against Moscow Flyer, but as we’ve read a lot of times on this forum Istabraq was overrated.
The Peter O’Sullevan shout is the clear #1
Only had the chance to listen to him in his last 10-12 years or so, but I never found him exciting and he wasn’t always too accurate especially in close finishes. I liked Dessie a lot more than him…..
The best horse ever associated with the Durkan name was Anaglog’s Daughter.
In my opinion. 😎
Defending Istabraq he can only beat what’s behind him , likely if no foot and mouth he’d have won another Champion , he had few flaws
Pick 3 on Saturday champion 2025/2026
At Cheltenham I doubt many would beat him , in recent times Hurricane possibly after that i doubt much would
Pick 3 on Saturday champion 2025/2026
The problem is peak Hill was a flash in the pan , same Hill who cant jump and is now a flat handicapper would be beat…
Pick 3 on Saturday champion 2025/2026
Don’t think Istabraq would have cut much ice with Night Nurse, Monksfield and Sea Pigeon to name just three better Champion Hurdlers.
Yes you can only beat the rivals that turn up but quite frankly most of his rivals were not great and with no Istabraq we would have had Theatreworld (winner of 6 of his 33 hurdle races) as a dual Champion Hurdler! Yes in his 2000 win Istabraq did beat Hors La Loi III (the subsequent 2002 Champion Hurdle winner) but that horse only won one of his next subsequent 10 races afters his 2002 win and that was a Class 3 2m2f novice chase at Taunton!
Diamond Necklace a lot better than any of this year’s Coolmore 3-yo and maybe a top 3 filly Aidan has ever trained.
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