The home of intelligent horse racing discussion
The home of intelligent horse racing discussion

Trainer’s title race

Home Forums Horse Racing Trainer’s title race

Viewing 17 posts - 1 through 17 (of 19 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #21323
    cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 9002

    Let’s hope that as the ultra-competitive Nicholls and Henderson yards eye up the trainer’s title we don’t end up seeing horses running who should be done for the season.

    I note Sprinter Sacre and Simonsig are being mooted for Aintree. I’d have those two in a field already, wrapped in cotton wool for next year, were they mine.

    #397895
    GodolphinArabian
    Member
    • Total Posts 275

    Sprinter Sacre

    it was like a workout really at CF.

    #397896
    Raffingora
    Member
    • Total Posts 58

    This thought reminds me of the Martin Pipe / Paul Nicholls days. Remember when Martin Pipe won his last championship. Pipe and Nicholls had all nine runners in the 2 mile chase on the last day of the season. The race was won by Well Chief from Azertyuiop, who many thought wasn’t 100% fit. Also Martin Pipe ran one of his horses, Commercial Express I think, 4 times in something like 5 days if my memory serves me correctly.
    Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that!!

    #397910
    % MAN
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5104

    Trainers titles are a complete irrelevance,especially when decided by prize money.

    A waste of precious oxygen even discussing the matter.

    #397915
    Drone
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5709

    I note Sprinter Sacre and Simonsig are being mooted for Aintree. I’d have those two in a field already, wrapped in cotton wool for next year, were they mine.

    Why?

    Should Aintree be regarded as no more than a ‘consolation’ meeting for Cheltenham also-rans?

    Both Simonsig and Sprinter Sacre have had just four races this season

    And just have a look at the tracks these two have run at thus far and their conformation, particularly that of Simonsig. Doesn’t the prospect of them running at unusual Aintree fascinate you Cormack?

    Shouldn’t the (welcome) one month gap between Cheltenham and Aintree this year be relished by connections of the Cheltenham ‘champions’ as an opportunity to frank their form in other top-class races at another top-class meeting?

    And in doing so provide us with compelling sport, which I believe is the primary objective behind running horses around a field and over obstacles

    "who will win the trainers’ championship"
    "who will do the washing-up tonight"

    #397923
    Raffingora
    Member
    • Total Posts 58

    Trainers titles are a complete irrelevance,especially when decided by prize money.

    A waste of precious oxygen even discussing the matter.

    Try telling that to Nicholls and Henderson!!

    #397924
    eddie case
    Member
    • Total Posts 1214

    Let’s hope that as the ultra-competitive Nicholls and Henderson yards eye up the trainer’s title we don’t end up seeing horses running who should be done for the season.

    I note Sprinter Sacre and Simonsig are being mooted for Aintree. I’d have those two in a field already, wrapped in cotton wool for next year, were they mine.

    Maybe you should take up training cormack, if not best to leave it to the pros.
    Agree with Paul apart from the prize money bit, all jockeys and trainers championships are a complete irrelevance and a waste of oxygen.

    #397936
    theplasticpaddy
    Member
    • Total Posts 57

    Does anyone know if it would be possible to come up with a trainers table based around earnings relative to average cost of Horse? Now that would tell us who the best trainer is!!! Probably impossible but I think we would find a trainers championship on that basis would be very different. And possibly more relevant for the smaller owner. Just a thought. Anyway, hope Henderson stuffs Nicholls.

    #397986
    GodolphinArabian
    Member
    • Total Posts 275

    Trainers titles are a complete irrelevance,especially when decided by prize money.

    A waste of precious oxygen even discussing the matter.

    Why Paul? with jockey’s its about how many winners they get.. But with trainers its about how much prize money the get for there owners it makes sense when you think about it..

    If it happened that Nicky won all the big money races But Paul won the ‘bread and butter’ races and won the title it would be sickening.

    #397999
    % MAN
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5104

    Trainers titles are a complete irrelevance,especially when decided by prize money.

    A waste of precious oxygen even discussing the matter.

    Why Paul? with jockey’s its about how many winners they get.. But with trainers its about how much prize money the get for there owners it makes sense when you think about it..

    If it happened that Nicky won all the big money races But Paul won the ‘bread and butter’ races and won the title it would be sickening.

    I don’t see the point of a trainers championship anyway but if there has to be one it should be decided on the number of winners.

    Who is the better trainer, one who farms a handful of high value races – winning a freakish race like the Grand National would seriously skew the title for example – or a trainer who trains a large number of lower grade winners?

    I would say the latter was the better trainer, the number of winners should be the deciding factor if there has to be a "championship".

    #398010
    cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 9002

    Eddie – You don’t need to be a racehorse trainer to have an opinion on training racehorses. My opinion might be uninformed and misdirected but I’m perfectly entitled to both a)have it and b)express it. It’d be a dull world if we only ever expressed opinions on fields in which we were experts.

    I know that NJH and PFN are both exceptional trainers but, as an earlier post alluded to, history shows that when it gets competitive sometimes decisions are taken that wouldn’t otherwise have been taken.

    Drone – Aintree has long been an unhappy hunting ground for Cheltenham winners. I appreciate that the dynamic is slightly different this year with the longer time-lapse between the two meetings but the potential positive of additional recovery period may be more than offset by the possibility of unsuitable/false ground.

    I’m not saying I wouldn’t watch with interest if either of those were to run, just that if I owned them Aintree wouldn’t be the route for me.

    #398054
    Peruvian Chief
    Member
    • Total Posts 1931

    No offence Mr Cormack, buy your opening post is a good example of what is so increasingly infuriating about NH racing. Its not all about Chelts for crying out loud, and the fact that Sprinter Sacre (shock, horror!) actually running at Aintree could be construed by some as greedy / unneccessary is depressing.

    #398070
    cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 9002

    I think I’m being misunderstood.

    I’m not anti-Aintree, although I do think I’d think twice about running a horse suited by Cheltenham there and I would have qualms about teh possibilty of fiirm-ish ground.

    What I was getting at was simply that if SS and Simonsig are to run there just to tot up some prize money in the Nicholls/Henderson title fight it’d be a worry.

    #398073
    eddie case
    Member
    • Total Posts 1214

    Eddie – You don’t need to be a racehorse trainer to have an opinion on training racehorses. My opinion might be uninformed and misdirected but I’m perfectly entitled to both a)have it and b)express it. It’d be a dull world if we only ever expressed opinions on fields in which we were experts.

    Correct cormack, especially the "uninformed and misdirected" bit :lol:
    I’m sure you’ll also I agree I’m fully entitled to comment on your views on the subject.

    Is firmish ground a factor at Aintree these days? and even if it was do you really think trainers of the calibre of Nicholls and Henderson would risk quality animals for the sake of a trainers championship even if the owners allowed it?
    I think you are seriously underestimating them.

    With 4 weeks between the meetings the more horses that run at Aintree from Cheltenham the better, racehorses are for racing.

    #398125
    Drone
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5709

    If one’s concern about NH horses is the possibility of them encountering top-of-the-ground then the NH season may as well finish when the snowdrops emerge

    One week is a long time in British Weatherlore, three weeks an eternity

    Robert99, please feel free to correct but…

    …it’s my understanding that the topsoil at Aintree is a dark, peaty water-retentive organic loam and as such remains a favourable and forgiving surface even when superficially dry, or if you prefer inexact racing idiom – ‘firm and fast’

    Cheltenham’s topsoil on the other hand is a more typical silty-clay loam that as the ‘clay’ bit might suggest was once notorious for waterlogging. Now that excessive remedial drainage work has been done the surface can become genuinely ‘firm and fast’ and unforgiving as heavy soils tend to harden rapidly under a strengthening sun beneath sparse spring grass

    So if I as an owner didn’t regard Cheltenham as the ‘be all and end all’ and the integrity of my horse’s skeletal structures were the primary concern, Aintree it may well, and only, be

    #398130
    Hurdygurdyman
    Member
    • Total Posts 1533

    There a longer break this year between the 2 meetings than there used to be but it doesn’t alter the fact that horses peak at Cheltenham and once up there the only way is down.

    Unless of course you are Sprinter Scare :wink:

    He’s yet to have a race this season so I have no worries about Nicky sending him there. Nothing will take him on anyway, unless of course they are stone mad and want a hammering.

    Simonsig is a different ball game. He won far enough rather than easy enough. He was having a fair old race when his main rival departed so it’s hard to say whether it took a lot out of him or not. Horses like him get turned over every year at Aintree so I would have to see what was taking him on before getting involved.

    As far as the Title goes I suggested in a thread months ago Nicky would win it and I still hope he does but PN will not make it easy for him. He’s probably giving Kauto a massage right now and telling him get up ya lazy brute I got a title to win :mrgreen:

    #398155
    theplasticpaddy
    Member
    • Total Posts 57

    I don’t, for a second, think that Nicky Henderson would compromise the welfare of the likes of sprinter sacre or simonsig to win the trainers title especially as he is a nailed on certainty to be champion trainer next year.
    Nicholls is going to have a few years in the doldrums. I wonder if his owners will be more patient with him than he has been over the years with his jockeys? Having been such a good jockey himself, I suppose he was bound to expect the best!!!???!!!

Viewing 17 posts - 1 through 17 (of 19 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.