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Over the last few years we,ve seen a number of trainers rise , the likes of Skelton , Olly Murphy etc plus the improvement in established yards such as the Tizzards , however I also look at trainers who despite there facilities seem to under perform , it amazes me how poor the pipe yard is now a days , a yard of nearly 100 horses yet no star ?? , what’s everyone’s thoughts , any trainers you think are now on the downgrade
Jonjo isnt too sharp nowadays IMO, its been a while since ive even thought of backing one of his.
Ive really taken to olly murphy recently, he will definitely keep progressing,
Yeah I’d say jonjo had a quiet season but he did say early in the season that he had a lot of younger horses to come on …my brother is currently following minella Rocco off a cliff
Can’t believe that this thread has been ongoing for nearly a week and nobody has mentioned Alan King.
The one trainer who would never make the list is Michael Blanshard, since I have been compiling speed figures, he is in my view the worst trainer on the planet, 19 winners in the past 5 seasons impressive sh*t.
Couldn’t train ivy up the wall springs to mind…
Mike.
Just one name:
Saeed Bin Suroor
For someone who trained the likes of Lammtarra, Swain, Halling, Dubai Destination and so on, playing 2nd fiddle to Charlie Appleby and getting the odd German G1 winner this is more than just being on the downgradePipe would be the one i agree with totally.
AJ Martin would be up there for me, he is still pretty heavily supported by strong owners, yet most of the time they are either useless or held up.
Potato, whilst i wouldn’t be disagreeing he isn’t great, how do you come to the fact that RH jnr is on the downgrade? Are you basing this on his dad?
Pat Kelly is a mental shout too but i’d expect that from you tbh.
Twitter: Jackh1092
Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!A lot of people don’t like Hannon but i think he’s not bad. Barney Roy did well for him just the other year and he won the 1000 Guineas last season.
Dermot Weld is nowhere near what he was, although possibly harsh due to the bad virus he had the other year.
Donald McCainHasn’t he had a resurgence? Lost a lot of owners, and has restocked and his strike rate last few seasons has picked up well?
Twitter: Jackh1092
Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!I think with Hannon I’m perhaps thinking more of his early 2yos. He is nowhere near as potent with these as he was when he first took over and as his father was. They used to harvest the early 2yo races but not close to how they used to be over the last few seasons.
Pat Kelly was ever so slightly tongue in cheek . Though I wont in the least bit be surprised if Pat never trains another festival winner and in 10 years time we look back and say Pat just happened to fluke a few very good horses and won at the festival with them but ultimately didnt have a clue what he was doing.
Dermot Weld is nowhere near what he was, although possibly harsh due to the bad virus he had the other year.
I think bad viruses are likely a major cause of a downturn in fortunes for individuals. I suppose good trainers can become poor trainers over time if they can’t be bothered to keep closely interested and try to improve; or perhaps some getting overwhelmed by mental health or family problems, but a good trainer doesn’t turn into a rubbish trainer overnight.
I think bad viruses are probably easier to deal with in the mega yards. They have economies of scale for isolation, biosecurity and vet care. And they have the power and the results behind them to tell owners that their horses aren’t going to see a racecourse for as long as it takes, and the owners will have enouh trust in them not to take their horses away. If they do lose horses their reputation is such that they could probably fill the empty boxes with good horses five times over in no time.
Whereas a smaller trainer has to decide whether to send horses out knowing they’ll likely get beaten, or keep them back and hope the owner doesn’t get fed up waiting. Either way they’re at higher risk of losing good horses from their yard.
I would think a persistent virus is a hell of a stress test for the financial health of a business….how long can you afford to keep all your staff on when you’re not sending out runners, and winning runners? How many owners can you afford to lose, and bounce back, and survive in business?
I think with Hannon I’m perhaps thinking more of his early 2yos. He is nowhere near as potent with these as he was when he first took over and as his father was. They used to harvest the early 2yo races but not close to how they used to be over the last few seasons.
100% i used to enjoy the watching the Hannon 2yos a lot, now not so much…..but i guess that’s partly maybe down to training them different?
I thought so Potato, but it’s ahrd to say someone can’t have a clue what he’s doing when his strike rate with Festival runners to winners must be very good? Tiny yard, he’s done the best (from memory) with any of the owners horses, that includes Elliot + Mullins. So credit he deserves.
Twitter: Jackh1092
Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!Hannon has been open about admitting that they have changed the approach with their 2YOs to try and gain more longevity with the horses.
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