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It is somewhat ancient history but if it had not have been for Brigadier Gerard there is every reason to suppose that Paul Mellon would have wanted Mill Reef to go for the Triple Crown. Mill Reef had been precocious enough to win over the minimum trip as a juvenile. His defeat in the Guineas and subsequent campaign probably did as much to make the St Leger unfashionable as Nijinsky’s defeat in the Arc the previous year.
Whether or not the decision to go for the triple crown is strongly influenced by the presence of Frankel is something that the triumvirate would keep to themselves. However, the chance to re-introduce some much-needed stamina into future generations of the thoroughbred gives hope that horse-racing will not descend into 4f or shorter races in the coming centuries.
People keep telling me I should be excited about Camelot going for the triple crown.
Try as I may I cannot garner any enthusiasm for tomorrows race at all.
He only narrowly won the 2000 Guineas, he won a weak Derby with no real strength in depth in which his main rival seriously under performed. The Irish Derby was similarly weak and run in atrocious ground conditions and the St Leger is a race which has long been a shadow of its former self.
Yes he may well win tomorrow but what does it prove?
Connections, understandably, have wrapped him in cotton wool, he’s never raced against serious opposition and, unlike Nijinsky going into the St Leger, has only raced against his own age.
IF, and it’s a big if, he goes on to race as a four-year-old and then beats decent horses then he may be considered a great horse and may be spoken of in the same breath as other Triple Crown winners, until then he’s just an above average runner from Ballydoyle.
Will I be watching the race, in truth it will probably be impossible to avoid but my main focus when the St Leger takes place will be looking at the runners in the parade ring for the Nursery at Chester.
Sir I believe you really mean full marks to Coolmore for avoiding Frankel
All this tosh is unwarranted If Frakel was not around do you seriously think this nag would be running in the Ledger
I think not !!!
IMO of course
Ricky
The only time they could have met was at York and why would you run a horse going for the St. Leger at that distance.
Connections have decided not to step Frankel up to 12f and Coolmore decided to go for the Triple Crown with Camelot. At least with Camelot we will find out if he has what is needed to win a Triple Crown, with Frankel we will sadly never know if he is not just the best horse over 8 and 10f by a very long way but also over 12f.
Calling a 2,000 Guineas, Derby and Irish Derby winner a nag is frankly the biggest load of tosh I’ve read in a very long while.
Ricky lake the question is why didn’t he go for the Triple Crown if he would have beaten them both as you say?It’s ok to say he would have beaten them both but he had his chance last year and they(connections) were not prepared to take it.Camelot may not stay the extra furlongs just as Frankel may not have stayed but there is only one way to find out.Perhaps you meant Frankel would have beaten them ,Nijinsky and Camelot, over a mile and a quarter and I would support you there.
People keep telling me I should be excited about Camelot going for the triple crown.
Try as I may I cannot garner any enthusiasm for tomorrows race at all.
He only narrowly won the 2000 Guineas, he won a weak Derby with no real strength in depth in which his main rival seriously under performed. The Irish Derby was similarly weak and run in atrocious ground conditions and the St Leger is a race which has long been a shadow of its former self.
Yes he may well win tomorrow but what does it prove?
Connections, understandably, have wrapped him in cotton wool, he’s never raced against serious opposition and, unlike Nijinsky going into the St Leger, has only raced against his own age.
IF, and it’s a big if, he goes on to race as a four-year-old and then beats decent horses then he may be considered a great horse and may be spoken of in the same breath as other Triple Crown winners, until then he’s just an above average runner from Ballydoyle.
Will I be watching the race, in truth it will probably be impossible to avoid but my main focus when the St Leger takes place will be looking at the runners in the parade ring for the Nursery at Chester.
Agreed. I’m not motivated for this race either. I’m sure O’Brien will tell us all that the horse walks on water and conjurs rabbits out of a hat, but he’s gonnae have to race at 4. As far as i’m concerned this triple crown is an opportunist title to hype up the horses stud value and avoid the better Arc competitors at the same time. Everything has fallen into place for this horse, juice in the 2000 guineas ground, fast ground at Epsom and a Leger minus Great heavens.
Andy , yes I meant Frankel would have beaten both Nijinsky and Camelot …having seen Nijinsky in his prime , he had a devastating turn of foot for 150 yards , that was where he killed off the opposition , Frankel is a monster he has a turn of foot that lasts for 3 furlongs …no contest in my view
I support Paul , in reality Camelot has not thrilled me in any way , if he does the business against top class horses as a 4 yr old , I will then give him due praise , as it stands he is a good 3 yr old , in a ordinary year for 3 yr olds
in my opinion of course
Ricky
Rather amusing that an ordinary year for 3 year olds isn’t mentioned when discussing Frankel’s 3yo campaign.
I believe Frankel is superior to both Nijinsky and Camelot over a mile and 10f but over 12f I’m not so sure. I also rate Nijinsky a better horse than Camelot.
fore the finish he will not win, however good he has been so far. Will he stay ….? Can’t wait!
Full marks to Coolmore for running him.
Sir I believe you really mean full marks to Coolmore for avoiding Frankel
All this tosh is unwarranted If Frakel was not around do you seriously think this nag would be running in the Ledger
I think not !!!
IMO of course
Ricky
Does it matter? The fact is he IS going for the triple crown.
If there is a strong head wind for tomorrows St. Ledger, will Joseph act as an air brake?
Today it will be racing history if Camelot wins the St.Leger.In one era winning the triple crown was the ultimate accolade and Nijinsky’s accomplishment in that time was phenomenal.What was remarkable was that Nijisnky also won the Irish Derby and King George and but for a bout of ringworm would have certainly won the Arc.In statistical terms he was simply the best of the champions,overshadowing even Sea the Stars.Had Sea the Stars been campaigned for the St.Leger i am almost certain it would have won the triple crown and had Mill Reef not raced in the year of Brigadier Gerard I would have backed him to achieve the historic distinction .Nashwan,too,had a great chance inspite of his being principally a 10 furlong horse.
One factor to be considered is that the St.Leger has lost it’s prestige and has virtually lost its old stature.I am almost certain that Camelot will win the Leger but that does not necessarily make him an all-time great in the Sea Bird,Frankel, or Nijinsky class.In statistical terms he would join the all-time champions but not in performance.Just examine his timeform ratings.Remember Nashwan’s superb record of race wins encompassing the Guineas ,Derby,Eclipse and King George .Inspite of Nijisnky wining the triple crown,Sea Bird,Mill Reef and Robot are ranked ahead of him.Infact in the 1971 season both Mill Reef and the Briagadier Gerard eclipsed the great Nijinsky.Overall however I mantain it is a great achievement to assert superiority from a mile to 14 furlongs,which eluded champions like Shergar,Dancing Brave and Sir Ivor.
People keep telling me I should be excited about Camelot going for the triple crown.
Try as I may I cannot garner any enthusiasm for tomorrows race at all.
He only narrowly won the 2000 Guineas, he won a weak Derby with no real strength in depth in which his main rival seriously under performed. The Irish Derby was similarly weak and run in atrocious ground conditions and the St Leger is a race which has long been a shadow of its former self.
Yes he may well win tomorrow but what does it prove?
Connections, understandably, have wrapped him in cotton wool, he’s never raced against serious opposition and, unlike Nijinsky going into the St Leger, has only raced against his own age.
IF, and it’s a big if, he goes on to race as a four-year-old and then beats decent horses then he may be considered a great horse and may be spoken of in the same breath as other Triple Crown winners, until then he’s just an above average runner from Ballydoyle. .
Agree with this. I don’t follow Flat racing closely but a cursory glance at Camelot’s form, the collateral form in particular, can only lead to the conclusion that at present the horse has not achieved anything of outstanding merit though if one only considered the names of the races he’s won they would suggest he is special
And a win today given the likely calibre of the opposition will do little to enhance his reputation other than it proving he’s an admirable middle distance stayer and it being a pleasing bit of ‘history in the making’
Camelot is that rare thing: a multiple classic winner still unexposed at the end of his 3yo career. If ever there was a concrete case for keeping a horse in training at 4 it is one with such a profile
Nevertheless, I will enjoy watching him attempt the Triple Crown this afternoon and hope he is successful: it will jolly good entertainment after all
Winning the Triple Crown does not prove anything about the oppositioin.But it certainly proves something about the horse who does it.
When someone says "he ONLY NARROWLY WON the Guineas" I wonder about their interest in racing and the history of the Guineas.Some of the best milers of our time have NARROWLY WON the Guineas yet we never claim they ONLY NARROWLY won that great race.
When another writer refers to the winner of the English Guineas and the English Derby as a NAG well so much for those great races and he should come out and say so rather than denigrating the horse who won both.After all Frankel won one of them but did not have the talent to win both.I wonder if Sir Henry Cecil trained Camelot would the tone of this thread be different?
I wonder if Sir Henry Cecil trained Camelot would the tone of this thread be different?
Of course it would. You’d be cribbing the horse instead of championing it you muppet.
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