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Only the Moscow, Azertyuiop, Well Chief was a better Tingle Creek, the best 2m race I have seen.
As they said on C4 Timeform had MM 19lbs clear of Tidal Bay. So Tidal Bay probably ran to form. Sure TB was not foot perfect but he rarely is. Did look outpaced but again often does hit a flat spot in his races. As others have said, Taceroc looked capable of better and possibly improved past TB.
Think my mate Magnificent Fists got it right about Twist Magic. Seemed to be going well when falling but looking at every race he’s run, has never found a great deal off the bridle. Probably struggles to stay a truly run 2m at least on a soft surface / testing circuit. So doubtful he would have found as much off the bridle, finishing somewhere near the placed horses. However, looking at the possible turn out for the Queen Mum, Tidal Bay, Voy Por Ustedes, Noland, Monet’s Garden, Tamarinbleu, are likely to go elsewhere. Well Chief looks unlikely to get back to his best. So it might be effectively a three horse field, Master Minded, Taceroc and Twist Magic. So G Wilson could well be right, come Cheltenham Twist Magic could yet be the second best two mile chaser. A distance behind Master Minded.
Mark
Value Is EverythingMcCoy’s comments are enough to convince me he’s the real deal. He was the most affected by the loose horse but once he’d settled down again he murdered them. Much like Denman, a point and steer job. Had far too much pace for Tidal Bay.
Judging by Nicholls comments Takeroc is a long way behind Master Minded at home and so it proved. Nicholls will no doubt train Twist Magic for Punchestown probably with a tune up in the CC. GWilson, if you think Twist will win the Champion you need your head examined or me to be your bookie.
I don’t think it’s out of the question (in fact I think it’s probable) that both Tidal Bay and Takeroc have improved since last season. Don’t see Tidal Bay being a low 160’s horse at the end of the season (remember horses like Gungadu are in there and IMO he’s much better than that one). Just think that in Master Minded we’ve seen the best 2m chaser on these shores for many a year.
Even if Tidal Bay improved 10lbs he’d still likely be some way behind a 186-190 rated Master Minded
think mm ran a superrace and very gd jumping .. was a great shame tm fell looked like he was just about to get into the race, hope he is ok??? tb looked a little outraced..
He looked ok Becks – was a soft fall really but hope his neck and legs are fine in the morning
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I now find myself craving a match race, a la War Admiral and Seabiscuit, between Kauto Star and Master Minded (over two miles).
Twist Magic was still travelling fairly well when coming down two out, so I don’t think Master Minded would have been quite as convincing, but that aside he’s still annihilated two top class horses almost on the bridle.
Absolute monster, and in no danger come March.
A wonderful performance from Master Minded. He had far too much pace for Tidal Bay, the only opponent left for him to conquer. Where are the dangers going to come from?
Tidal Bay proved what a tough animal he is. He battled back to put himself back in contention, but just didn’t have the pace of Master Minded. He once again beat Takeroc and, in my opinion, would’ve beaten Twist Magic. Paul Nicholls second string was cruising at the time, but we’ve seen time and time again that he finds little when asked a true question. Once he fell and Denis accepted defeat, TB wasn’t pushed for second.
Fans of Tidal Bay may be disappointed, but he maintained his proud record of never finishing outside the top two and he would be top dog over two miles in a normal year.
To say he was outclassed is a bit naive. If Denman was defeated by MM in the same fashion would we consider him to have been outclassed? No, today was just a case of one outstanding two miler having too many gears for a horse who will be better over two and a half / three miles.It was an honour to see Master Minded in full flow again. I said before how his Queen Mother performance was so unbelievable that I didn’t quite take it in. I did on this occasion and had no qualms about giving him a well deserved ovation as he crossed the line.
Tidal Bay’s head carriage was described in the Racing Post today as being ‘awkward and proud’. He battled on when others would’ve cried ‘enough’. We learned today that he may not be good enough against MM over two miles, but he is a top class, proud warrior. As I said, in any other year he would be a solid two mile champion.
Well done, Grasshopper. We had a few words on this thread and you were spot-on. Although, I did say he’d win if he was the horse we witnessed at Cheltenham (
). I was right!! 
I will post my photos of a great day on Sunday.
Good stuff as usual Bos’ and I hope you enjoyed your day at the Tingle Creek. Takes me back to my single days in London when I missed very few big days at Sandown.
On todays race, it had a slightly strange feel…maybe it was the loose horse, TB’s very poor spell early in the back straight or Twist Magic’s frustrating fall. Smashing effort by the winner and good to see him begin to put together the big race wins his rating suggests.
Can’t agree on your thought that Tidal Bay would be a Champion two miler in any other year. I couldn’t say for sure he would have been in more than one out of the last ten. Though it has been a golden age, since the turn of the millenium.Good stuff as usual Bos’ and I hope you enjoyed your day at the Tingle Creek. Takes me back to my single days in London when I missed very few big days at Sandown.
On todays race, it had a slightly strange feel…maybe it was the loose horse, TB’s very poor spell early in the back straight or Twist Magic’s frustrating fall. Smashing effort by the winner and good to see him begin to put together the big race wins his rating suggests.
Can’t agree on your thought that Tidal Bay would be a Champion two miler in any other year. I couldn’t say for sure he would have been in more than one out of the last ten. Though it has been a golden age, since the turn of the millenium.Thanks, Shabby.
With the obvious exceptions of Moscow Flyer and Master Minded, I think Tidal Bay would’ve been more than good enough in the last ten / fifteen years. You’re right, not too many ‘normal’ years since the turn of the millennium, though
Moscow Flyer and Master Minded mentioned in the same breath. Too early?
Well, I’ve just got back from Sandown after what was an erm…interesting day!! The whole occasion was actually really great, and I was even interviewed by someone – no idea who she was, but she was very nice, although she did ask me if I spoke English!! I’ll treasure my owners badge for ever – it was personalised, can you believe, and I was wearing it with pride! Yes, we took on the best of the best today, and I can tell you that we honestly think we could have got second, but we’ll never really know.
I was in the parade ring with Jamie, and we decided we’d really go eyeballs out from the word go. That’s not difficult with Flipper, and I wasn’t worried going to the first. He’s never fallen over fences before, and is usually a really good jumper, but for once, he just didn’t quite get it right. Flippers advantage is that he can jump really well at high speed, and Jamie said that he jumped the fence OK (just clipped the top of it), but just didn’t get his landing gear out. He may have stumbled a little on landing as well which didn’t help, and we’re very grateful to AP and Master Minded who somehow avoided both Flipper and Jamie on landing. Fact is, Flipper got back on his feet and decided he wanted to get involved – apparently, a little TOO involved for AP McCoys liking I think! Then he decided to pop off down the hurdles course, before re-acquainting himself with Master Minded at the winning post.
OR……..
A fabulous performance by Flipper today, just losing out to Master Minded in a photo finish. We are eternally grateful to the makers of the Harry Potter films, who lent Jamie the invisibility cloak as used at Hogwarts, which enabled Jamie to carry on riding despite giving the optical illusion that he had fallen at the first. Also, the cloak meant that Jamie was able to make a phone call to Davy Russell as he approached the pond fence: ‘Sure Jamie, turn right, and go up the hurdles course. There’s a gap there, but it’s fine, honestly. The stewards said that you can go up the hurdles course as the gap there isn’t actually part of the course and doesn’t count anyway’. Therefore, AP eases down on Master Minded totally unaware that Jamie is bearing down on him, invisibility cloak and all, but just can’t quite get there.
I’d like to point out for legal purposes that only one of the above stories is correct!
Darren – AngloGerman
________________________________________‘The Hungarian’s going hell for leather’ – Jim McGrath
Yes Bos’… Master Minded will probably never quite reach Moscow in my eyes…even if he managed to win Wimbledon, the Open Golf and Eurovision. Seriously though…its almost impossible for a horse to reach legendary status without an almost equal champion as a contempory and Master Minded may suffer a bit on that score.
Moscow was particularly lucky in that he took over from a fine Champion in Flagship Uberalles had to prove himself superior to brilliant Azertyuiop and then had to fight off the precocious but established Well Chief when he was 11.
Best Mate’s reputation is suffering somewhat as the lack of a fitting adversory makes his achievements a bit more difficult to quantify. The loss of Jair Du Cochet was particularly tragic.
Hopefully something may materlialise to help guage MM, Petit Robin looks the only unknown threat out there. I would be confident also that Tidal Bay would run much better in the QM than today but probably won’t get the chance.Good to see you take what must have been desperately disappointing in good part Darren,a bit of an anti climax for you all.
I will hazard a guess that it may have been Lesley Graham interviewing for Channel 4?
Have a few photos of Fieppe (sadly the opportunity to get an action shot didn’t materialise for obvious reasons) and will pass on a couple when the opportunity arises.
Moscow Flyer and Master Minded mentioned in the same breath. Too early?
definately not
as for tb, it was the quick fences wasnt it? I doubt he would have won even if he took those well, but time and again its that back straight that sorts them out. u would fancy him more at haydock or newbury perhaps
TB will get absolutely walloped in the King George. I type this message in an emotive, semi-drunken state….. but Tidal Bay, as much as I like the horse, gets destroyed in the KG, just wait.
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Master Minded looked fairly straight for yesterday’s reappearance, but it has to be remembered that he was conceding race fitness to Tidal Bay (who also had a racecourse gallop during the week), Takeroc and Twist Magic. Factor in the attentions of the loose horse, and just how well he won in the end, and comparisons with Moscow Flyer (I still think Azertyuiop was better) aren’t at all premature.
Doubts were sounded about Master Minded’s ability to reproduce his Champion Chase form, and whilst an RPR of 177 leaves him some 10lb short of that there can be no denying that he was still imperious in victory.
Today’s performance leaves him only 5lb short of Moscow Flyer’s best efforts (on RPRs at least), the 187 he achieved at Cheltenham – at the tender age of five, it should be noted – putting him some 5lb ahead. Direct comparisons are almost impossible, as I have said before, and figures are only one man’s interpretation, but how can the two names not be mentioned in the same sentence now? Admittedly only Tidal Bay and Takeroc are likely to be able to challenge the achievements of Moscow’e adversaries Azertyuiop and Well Chief, but Master Minded has already destroyed them.
In spite of having only won one Champion Chase and one Tingle Creek, what more is there for him to do? The scary thing is he’s probably still improving, too.
Joking aside Equi’ Master Minded can of course be mentioned in the same sentence as Moscow Flyer and its an enjoyable and legitimate exercise to compare their merits. As you suggest, its impossible to resolve unfortunately. But longevity is a significant factor for comparison, so to answer your question, the so far majestic Master Minded has plenty left to achieve.
On a more robust question, I am interested in why you think Az’ was better than Moscow…I would have thought there was a pretty strong case for the Irish horse.
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