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I have to disagree with you Miss Woodford re the connections of Frankel. Sir Henry Cecil is the ultimate best custodian of a horse with regard to looking after the interests of his charges.
If Prince Adbullah was afraid to keep horses in training, then why is a Derby winner and Arc winner like Workforce still be in training ?
Lets just enjoy the worlds best horse together whilst we canA reaffirmation of everything that is truly incredible about this remarkable species.
Joyful. Exuberant.
When I’m old and grey and looking back on my life, my 2000 Guineas and Sussex videos will provide smiles, warmth, satisfaction. I know it now.
Frankel, I salute you.
Just to humour the antagonistic "lastword", whose very obvious raison detre is to have the last word
– Now, any sensible person knows that it is nigh impossible trying to establish which champion racehorse from one particular era would have beaten another champion racehorse from a very different era. Comparisons are odious, as the great racing sages say.
However, just for your benefit ( and anyone else who may be remotely interested ), I have stumbled upon a computerised horse race, where an American named Paul Buckley has fed the names of 14 champion racehorses from different eras into a computer, giving all the stastics/form etc of each individual animal throughout their racing career.
The computer has analysed all the relevant data and has predicted the outcome. Bear in mind that this is from an American racing fan.
He has named it The Century Dream ( mile and a half ).
The venue is Churchill Downs – the surface, turf.The overall result listed the finishing positions of all 14 runners in the race – as the computer predicted.
The field was made up of Alleged, Dahlia, Phar Lap, Secretariat, Nijinsky, Mill Reef, Sea Bird II, Exceller, John Henry, Seattle Slew, Round Table, Ribot, Daylami and All Along.
The computer predicted the finishing positions of all 14 runners over the finishing line ( wire ) as follows:
Following is the complete order of finish:
FINISH HORSE MARGINS COMMENT
1 RIBOT 3 Set pace, won handily
2 SEA BIRD 1/2 Swung out at top of stretch, finished fast
3 PHAR LAP nk Launched bid on turn, held gamely for third
4 SECRETARIAT 1 Wide trip, battled to wire
5 MILL REEF 3/4 Finished well without threatening
6 ALLEGED nk Stalked winner, couldn’t keep pace
7 JOHN HENRY hd Saved ground, weakened
8 NIJINSKY II 1 Mid-pack throughout
9 ROUND TABLE hd Forwardly placed, tired
10 ALL ALONG 1/2 Three-wide trip, evenly
11 DAHLIA nk Trailed for one mile, passed tired horses
12 DAYLAMI 1 1/4 Saved ground mid-pack, tired
13 EXCELLER 1/2 Rated toward rear, no factor
14 ALLEZ FRANCE —– Trailed after one mile, dullGambling Only Pays When You're Winning
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Since I value my own expertise over any computer I can easily dismiss such drivel. The programmer obviously bent over backwards to Euro’s making it on grass in the first place. However Secretariat was THE greatest dirt or grass horse to ever step foot on a racetrack, ANYWHERE! If you don’t have him on top you are either delusional, biased or just a lightweight so I believe that should be the lastword.
I have to disagree with you Miss Woodford re the connections of Frankel. Sir Henry Cecil is the ultimate best custodian of a horse with regard to looking after the interests of his charges.
If Prince Adbullah was afraid to keep horses in training, then why is a Derby winner and Arc winner like Workforce still be in training ?
Lets just enjoy the worlds best horse together whilst we canIt is certainly possible to keep a horse sound and sane while running more than 5 times a year. Workfarce had just 4 starts last year. I may be old-fashioned, but I like racehorses to actually race. European horses tend to have fewer starts due to the shorter season, but if Frankel had more chances to show how amazing he really is, particularly on an international stage, he would get more respect from the American naysayers. There’s a reason Goldi has so many fans here.
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Himself
– thank you for that little bit of fun. We can all enjoy matching our favourites against one another, but Ribot is a worthy winner in this or any company. Of course Mr B’s "race" was framed before Zarkava and Sea the Stars came along: I’d have a little side bet on that last named beating the lot of them!
By the way, can we please stop insulting
Nijinsky
by giving him his yankee soubriquet? He raced as plain "Nijinsky" until registered as "the second" for stud purposes in the States, and it’s wrong to call him by a name he never raced under and would not have answered to.
James Willoughby made some interesting points on RUK tonight at Epsom about the true test of greatness involving a horse showing itself able to get itself out of holes during a race – by which test your sublime Secretariats and Frankels don’t quality as great (yet), though your Sea the Stars (Arc) and Phar Laps (numerous!) certainly do.
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w195/scribbles123/troll.jpg
For the record, i’d have had Mill Reef in front of Secretariat in that race. That would have been something to brighten the morning.
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James Willoughby made some interesting points on RUK tonight at Epsom about the true test of greatness involving a horse showing itself able to get itself out of holes during a race – by which test your sublime Secretariats and Frankels don’t quality as great (yet), though your Sea the Stars (Arc) and Phar Laps (numerous!) certainly do.
And James Willoughby would know?
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I’ve always known him as Nijinsky II so no need to change now. No martinet am I anyway. I invite all to the American racing section which will now be made relevant here by the lastword.
No stranger am I to chat boards and i’ve found those who play the Troll Card are the very ones who cannot step. They also can’t stand an opinion other than their own.
Just keeping it real. It’s what I do- Total Posts 17716
And James Willoughby would know?
He doesn’t pretend to hold crude black and white opinions. James W. has the power to engage, interest, challenge, and make those of us who enjoy the challenge think hard about the evidence. That’s why I and many others enjoy his contributions. Intelligence is always welcome in debate!
By the way, can we please stop insulting
Nijinsky
by giving him his yankee soubriquet? He raced as plain "Nijinsky" until registered as "the second" for stud purposes in the States, and it’s wrong to call him by a name he never raced under and would not have answered to.
That’s not an insult, it’s clarification. There are multiple Nijinskies, including the 1958 horse by Tom Fool out of Natasha. There are other famous horses with the II added on. Cougar II (CHI), Whisk Broom II and Ben Nevis II (GB) are all listed in the Hall of Fame as such. Not to mention Champions Canonero II, Iceberg II (CHI), Kayak II (ARG), and Shannon II (AUS). Also Kentucky Derby winners Macbeth II and Typhoon II, both domestic-bred horses. Sir Gallahad III (FR), Blenheim II (GB), Grey Dawn II (FR), and Challenger II (GB) were leading sires.
This convention isn’t just in the US, either. Horses who raced in the UK with numbers added include Cheltenham Gold Cup winner Medoc II, Grand National winners Ambush II (IRE), Lutteur III (FR), and Merryman II, and 3-time Scottish Grand National winner Couvrefeu II.
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And James Willoughby would know?
He doesn’t pretend to hold crude black and white opinions. James W. has the power to engage, interest, challenge, and make those of us who enjoy the challenge think hard about the evidence. That’s why I and many others enjoy his contributions. Intelligence is always welcome in debate!
And here’s me, thinking intelligence was about understanding truths and applying them!
Himself
-James Willoughby made some interesting points on RUK tonight at Epsom about the true test of greatness involving a horse showing itself able to get itself out of holes during a race – by which test your sublime Secretariats and Frankels don’t quality as great (yet), though your Sea the Stars (Arc) and Phar Laps (numerous!) certainly do.
What utter garbage. So by that criteria Sea Bird wasn’t great because he couldn’t overcome running wide into the straight when beaten by Grey Dawn, Dayjur wasn’t great because he couldn’t overcome jumping a shadow.
Where would that statement leave Frankel, nothing has got near enough to get trouble him, the St James’s Palace the only time in his career he showed vulnerability his brilliance has already taken him too far clear for anything to take advantage. If retires undefeated winning his races as clearly has he as, would that make him any less great because he was never in trouble?
Himself
-James Willoughby made some interesting points on RUK tonight at Epsom about the true test of greatness involving a horse showing itself able to get itself out of holes during a race – by which test your sublime Secretariats and Frankels don’t quality as great (yet), though your Sea the Stars (Arc) and Phar Laps (numerous!) certainly do.
What utter garbage. So by that criteria Sea Bird wasn’t great because he couldn’t overcome running wide into the straight when beaten by Grey Dawn, Dayjur wasn’t great because he couldn’t overcome jumping a shadow.
Where would that statement leave Frankel, nothing has got near enough to get trouble him, the St James’s Palace the only time in his career he showed vulnerability his brilliance has already taken him too far clear for anything to take advantage. If retires undefeated winning his races as clearly has he as, would that make him any less great because he was never in trouble?
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