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Frankel is no certainty if he runs tomorrow.
I have no doubt he will go on the ground if asked, but Cirrus des Aigles is a monster on heavy going.
His last two performances on such ground have resulted in a nine and eight length destruction against the likes of Giofra and Reliable Man. If you go back even further to his Grand Prix de Deauville success last year, he beat Silver Pond by ten lengths – and he’s not exactly a tree.
The ground tomorrow will also place further emphasis on stamina. Whilst I think Frankel would stay twelve furlongs on his head, Cirrus des Aigles has proven Group1 form over such a distance in heavy ground.
He also boasts Group1 form around this track when beating the likes So You Think, Snow Fairy, Midday and Nathaniel in this race last year.
Furthermore, Olivier Peslier has a 100% record on the gelding (DQ aside), and few ride Ascot better than the mercurial Frenchman who must be on cloud nine still after his latest Arc success.
I’m struggling to find anything negative about the chances of Cirrus des Aigles – the only one being a colt named Frankel!
Ginge – I would rather he tried and failed than not try at all.
A number of posters have questioned his versatility. The fact that he has never been asked to go outside of his comfort zone. The fact that he has never had to battle or show courage.
If he runs tomorrow, those questions will be asked and answered.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Ginge – I would rather he tried and failed than not try at all.
A number of posters have questioned his versatility. The fact that he has never been asked to go outside of his comfort zone. The fact that he has never had to battle or show courage.
If he runs tomorrow, those questions will be asked and answered.
Win or lose unfortunately it won’t silence the simple few.
Ginge – I would rather he tried and failed than not try at all.
A number of posters have questioned his versatility. The fact that he has never been asked to go outside of his comfort zone. The fact that he has never had to battle or show courage.
If he runs tomorrow, those questions will be asked and answered.
Here here! From a completely unbiased viewpoint!
I would say that ‘Frankels’ Class will win the day,he has it in abundance but it will be required tomorrow.I’m just wondering whether Tom will get serious with him if he has too,he has way too much respect for the horse to start hurting him now! Joni wont sleep tonight I’m telling you!^^I couldn’t agree with you more, Joni.
If he doesn’t handle the conditions, he doesn’t win. If he does and beats a rival with outstanding form on heavy ground, his stock goes up even further.
This is why there is such a edge about the race tomorrow. This is something that his legions of fans aren’t used to – the potential is there for Frankel to actually get beat.
And we’re all sh***ing because of it!
I was adamant this fella should have run in the Arc. Now I’m glad he didn’t! This final race against Cirrus des Aigles and Nathaniel on heavy ground, home soil, supporting our Champions’ Day has actually provided a better stage for Frankel.
More question will be asked of him tomorrow than ever before and if he answers them there is nothing left to prove. The feeling of euphoria will be off the charts because of the uncertainty.
However, remember what happened when Zenyatta stepped out on the racetrack for the final time on a fairly unfamiliar surface with the expectations of an entire nation? I hope I don’t have to go through that again!
Let’s hope Queally doesn’t lose his cool down the straight…
Joni wont sleep tonight I’m telling you!
I’m not even going to try Gord!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Admittedly this is probably the latest date that the re-vamped Champions Day will be staged but there was a good reason that they never used to have a flat meeting at Ascot past early October. Championship flat races should ideally be contested on going no worse than good to soft, choosing a time and location where soft going is more than a 50% chance seems to me to be counter-productive.
Joni wont sleep tonight I’m telling you!
I’m not even going to try Gord!
The main thing is that Frankel comes back safe and sound to enjoy a richly deserved retirement.
Agree on both counts EF.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
If Frankel doesn’t win by 6 lengths or more, then some will inevitably say (wrongly) he isn’t as good as they rated him.
I’ll be cheering on Frankel all the way, but both Cirrus and Nathaniel are too big to ignore. I’ve backed them both against him at a combined price of just over 4/1.
Both are proven in soft ground and stay further than Frankel. It looks like being a stamina test.
Value Is EverythingThat is the question Ginger.We cannot say they stay better than Frankel since we have never tested Frankel to see if he stays or not.He won the International over the same distance I believe.So we know he stays the distance of the race.So what exactly do you mean when you say we don’t know if he stays?
As a betting medium it’s been ruined by only 6 runners, but who cares about betting with a horse like this?
And a few hours later it is a different story?
In general terms, the performance of a racehorse is diminished in very soft ground. The degree to which the ability to produce one’s best varies by individual. Cirrus des Aigles appears to show little or no reduction in performance in very soft ground but to say his performance improves is wrong, it is just on a par with his performance on a sounder surface. Pastorius has shown the ability to handle very soft conditions, Nathaniel is a full brother to Great Heavens who appreciates the soft to lessen her rivals ability to accelerate at the end of a race.
Frankel showed in the Queen Anne that good to soft had no adverse effect on his performance but exceptional horses produce their very best on a sound surface. While it would be fitting that he retires in front of an adoring public, I do not support the notion of getting to the bottom of him. Grundy virtually refused to come out of his box at York as the memory of the King George lingered. The Brigadier had more than one race on very soft conditions and retired as a horse with nothing left to give.
The ability of racehorses is elastic, once it has been over-stretched, the zenith is no more attainable.If Frankel doesn’t win by 6 lengths or more, then some will inevitably say (wrongly) he isn’t as good as they rated him.
I’ll be cheering on Frankel all the way, but both Cirrus and Nathaniel are too big to ignore. I’ve backed them both against him at a combined price of just over 4/1.
Both are proven in soft ground and stay further than Frankel. It looks like being a stamina test.
Now I am convinced your totally off your rocker
How can any horse be value to beat the worlds best racehorse in any conditions?If you took out Frankel and put So You Think and Snow Fairy in they’d probably head the betting if they were in top top shape.
Dozens of races to have a bet in with a lot more chance of success than trying to get Frankel beat,
The ground will have to stop Frankel and slow him down an awful lot for the opposition to have the remotest chance. They are what they are and they don’t go any faster because the ground is soft they are totally dependent on Frankel going 10 lengths or more slower than his norm.I just can’t see that happening and if the ground is absolutely desperate they wont run him anyway and rightly so..
I honestly think he’d win this by 15 lengths this possibly being his last race and it were good ground but in these conditions Tom will most likely hold on to him a bit longer than usual so I took the 11/10 under 6 lengths and 5/2 3.5-6 lengths inclusive.
I also took 5/2 Nathaniel without Frankel. All of which might end up making me look as daft as you
If you took out Frankel and put So You Think and Snow Fairy in they’d probably head the betting if they were in top top shape.
I very much doubt it; on this ground, Cirrus Des Aigles would be clear favourite.
If you took out Frankel and put So You Think and Snow Fairy in they’d probably head the betting if they were in top top shape.
Have you really got so little idea. So You Think and Snow Fairy just wouldn’t run on this ground but hypothetically Cirrus Des Aigles would be a very short price to wipe the floor with them.
Cirrus Des Aigles is arguably the second best horse around and running on his favoured ground. Frankel for all the superlatives is unproven on the ground and connections clearly have more than a ‘tiny concern’ about conditions. Yes, he may still trounce the opposition but that belief involves a large amount of guesswork for which you are getting a very short price. He was still backed at short odds in his previous races – he isn’t this time for good reason.
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