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Ginge,
the average field size in chases is smaller that that over hurdles, so if you compare most top jockeys, you will find that they tend to have higher SRs over fences than hurdles. That’s no indication of my opinion of AP, btw, just a simple statistical point.
On the subject of Timmy Murphy, he has been known to ignore instructions from trainers in the past (I spoke to one at the last Cheltenham meeting who was livid with the way he’d ridden one of his best horses)and was once stable jockey to Paul Nicholls with disastrous consequences. He has absolutely no eye for a stride these days and keeps himself in work by selling the notion that he is the best rider in the country for quirky horses.
Stilvi,
Did not say Timmy Murphy was not capable of front running, just that he’s not well known for it. He’s thought of as a master (by some) of hold up tactics. Yet AP is well known as a master of front running.
Rory,
At first I could see your point, but thinking more about it…
All depends why you believe this is the case.
Does not matter if chases are easier to win. There are only a certain amount of chases to win. Therefore, you can not expect most top jockeys to increase strike rates. If one top jockey’s strike rate goes up (compared with hurdles); then logig suggests another top jockey’s percentage needs to fall. There are no more percentage points to hurdle races than fences, both are judged to 100%….
Unless what you are actually saying is, a bigger percentage of races over fences are won by top jockeys than "inferior jockeys" (compared to hurdles). Can understand that.However, as there is only 1 or 2% to most of the statistics, think it can mostly be put down to coincidence. Walsh’s stats is just 1% different.
Value Is EverythingTimmy Murphy and Diamond Harry make a superb combination,i wouldn"t swop him for anybody on that horse,Timmy looks after the fragility of the horse,he can only improve under Murphys guidance!
Timmy Murphy and Diamond Harry make a superb combination,i wouldn"t swop him for anybody on that horse,Timmy looks after the fragility of the horse,he can only improve under Murphys guidance!
Ersebiscuits, sir!
I believe what segal wrote is that AP wouldnt have been his first, second, third, fourth or fifth choice for Denman.
Ruby, Barry G and Sam Thomas would have been three of the five. The other two I dont know – maybe Russell and Fehily.
I dont think he actually meant that these five men were better jockeys than AP – it was just for Denman .
FWIW I think McCoy could have a very good festival and overall probably has a better book of rides than Geraghty. Of course Ruby has far superior ammo to any of them , Big Bucks, Kauto, Masterminded and Quevega will probably all lower SPs than any of McCoy or Geraghtys rides.
Reflected in Jan/ Feb stats too…
Ruby 48 ( Uk & ire) winners in 2010, Geraghty 31, McCoy 22 ( before today) .
I think Timmy Murphy is a a beuatiful rider of a horse and thats all Denman wants and needs
I don’t know why jibsa is getting such a slagging for this suggestion, I said right from the start of the Denman / AP debate that if Sam was getting jocked off only Timmy or Nina Carberry would give Denman the right kind of sympathetic but firm ride and let him go about his business. I expected some dingbats about Nina but got none although I was well aware that it would never happen I even got some approval for the suggestion from those who know a proper jockey when they see one but I always felt Timmy was a really serious option, either would be perfect, both are superb horse(persons) and great judges of pace athough neither are best know for front runners both are more than capable of building it up from the front, Denman style.
If Denman was mine Sam would be on his back, but if for some reason he wasn’t available I’d have no hesitation about giving Nina the mount.Sadly I won’t be backing Denman this year if the current riding arrangements stand, it’ll be the first Festival for four years that he’s not been my banker
I don’t get to see the Morning Line much these days and had no idea what to expect when I saw that Tom Segal was on, but must admit to being quite impressed [possibly because he, I think, agreed with me about the Wichita Linesman ride]; although he got it wrong about Private Be his explanation of why he chose the horse was interesting, particularly as I’m someone that is always looking for the value bet to put my pennies on. On the subject of TML I had heard that McCririck was getting a bit tiresome with his Lord Snooty jibes, and I had to agree with that yesterday.Glad he’s back on TML, however.
McCririck (to Nick Luck) : "Come on then, Lord Snooty, you tell us just how many ‘fags’ you whipped while at Harrow"
Nick Luck : "For discipline or pleasure?"
I haven’t enjoyed TML as much as Saturday’s programme ever. Segal was fascinating – prompting the best out of Francome & McCririck. Nick Luck was superb as a host, mixing the correct amount of humour with serious discussion.
Of course it helped that Jimbo, Posh Bird, Thommo & Down were absent, but there were still a couple of superfluous hangers-on present.Yes, I was struck by the 5 better than AP in a chase comment as well. Only wish someone had pressed him more on it, but that may have been hard on AP.
Timmy Murphy and Diamond Harry make a superb combination,i wouldn"t swop him for anybody on that horse,Timmy looks after the fragility of the horse,he can only improve under Murphys guidance!
Ersebiscuits, sir!
Rory, disagree with the King who told you connections will have him jumping fences after his last run over hurdles! You surprise me!Perhaps you could offer a preferable jockey who knows the horse well enough to jump the RSA course? Thought Not!
I think Timmy Murphy is a a beuatiful rider of a horse and thats all Denman wants and needs
I don’t know why jibsa is getting such a slagging for this suggestion, I said right from the start of the Denman / AP debate that if Sam was getting jocked off only Timmy or Nina Carberry would give Denman the right kind of sympathetic but firm ride and let him go about his business. I expected some dingbats about Nina but got none although I was well aware that it would never happen I even got some approval for the suggestion from those who know a proper jockey when they see one but I always felt Timmy was a really serious option, either would be perfect, both are superb horse(persons) and great judges of pace athough neither are best know for front runners both are more than capable of building it up from the front, Denman style.
If Denman was mine Sam would be on his back, but if for some reason he wasn’t available I’d have no hesitation about giving Nina the mount.Sadly I won’t be backing Denman this year if the current riding arrangements stand, it’ll be the first Festival for four years that he’s not been my banker
I can understand someone rating Ruby Walsh above AP, I can even tolerate Barry G being rated above AP. But Nina Carberry and Timmy Murphy? Yur ‘aving a larf! Timmy Murphy is a good horseman, might even be able to finesse a quirky hold up horse, yes he is o.k. from the front too. But come on! He is not as good as AP.
Nina is the best female jockey I’ve seen, but she is not as good as AP, not as consistant, not as strong, not as good a judge of pace, not ever, NO!To say you won’t back Denman because AP is on board is sheer stupidity. There, you got the reaction you wanted CS. So if you were offered 10/1 about a 4/1 shot, you wouldn’t take it? Have yet to hear you answer the point about Sam Thomas making an identical mistake on Denman at Aintree. If he’s so good, why did that happen? It is more than likely it was your God, your beloved Denman that made the error at both courses.
Surely this witch hunt will end soon? There’s been 8 threads with people criticising AP McCoy in 3 pages of the "horse racing" section. Most on about the same ride. To be fair, not all those threads were started just to criticise him.
Value Is EverythingTom Segal made himself look stupid suggesting he could pick 5 better jockeys on a chaser than A,P McCoy! Mind you he made one of his rare errors putting up Private Be yesterday,on a day where he was getting maximum publicity!It was the Hobbs factor that cost him dear,he fell hook line and sinker!Anyone who knows their racing,knows AP is a genius who made what i call a "human error" on Denman,we all make mistakes!Anyway i notice
Choc Thornton
has landed the ride on Somersby,time to snaffle the 14/1 about him being top jockey me thinks! What with Twist Magic,Medermit,Somersby etc he could give Ruby a run for his money!
Add Bensalem in the William Hill trophy and Sir Harry Ormesher for the Coral Cup to the list!Dont forget Voy Por Ustedes for the Ryanair! Time to get on again!
Choc fancys all the above,so have had another £10 on at 13 on the machine!
Ruby
Grahem Lee
Richard Johnson
Robert Thornton
Barry GerateyYou’re not telling me you would have Jonners on a steeple-chaser before McCoy, dave22? Say it ain’t so.
I think Timmy Murphy is a a beuatiful rider of a horse and thats all Denman wants and needs
I don’t know why jibsa is getting such a slagging for this suggestion, I said right from the start of the Denman / AP debate that if Sam was getting jocked off only Timmy or Nina Carberry would give Denman the right kind of sympathetic but firm ride and let him go about his business. I expected some dingbats about Nina but got none although I was well aware that it would never happen I even got some approval for the suggestion from those who know a proper jockey when they see one but I always felt Timmy was a really serious option, either would be perfect, both are superb horse(persons) and great judges of pace athough neither are best know for front runners both are more than capable of building it up from the front, Denman style.
If Denman was mine Sam would be on his back, but if for some reason he wasn’t available I’d have no hesitation about giving Nina the mount.Sadly I won’t be backing Denman this year if the current riding arrangements stand, it’ll be the first Festival for four years that he’s not been my banker
I can understand someone rating Ruby Walsh above AP, I can even tolerate Barry G being rated above AP. But Nina Carberry and Timmy Murphy? Yur ‘aving a larf! Timmy Murphy is a good horseman, might even be able to finesse a quirky hold up horse, yes he is o.k. from the front too. But come on! He is not as good as AP.
My comment was that Timmy’s quiet symathetic style would suit Denman far better than AP’s pushing and shoving
Nina is the best female jockey I’ve seen, but she is not as good as AP,
Can’t agree with you, instead I tend to agree with Enda Bolger who has been quoted several times as saying
"She is the best rider I’ve ever seen, horses run and jump for her, she’s incredible"
I wouldn’t go so far as to say she’s better than Ruby but all in all I’ll stick with my view that she’s better than the rest of the male jockeys riding today
not as consistant,
REALLY? Check your facts. She regularly has a 25% to 30% wins to rides seasonal record, not even Ruby can match that
not as strong,
Agreed
not as good a judge of pace,
Disagree although there probably insn’t all that much in it
not ever, NO!
To say you won’t back Denman because AP is on board is sheer stupidity.
Why?…I expected him to end up on his ar*e in The Aon and sadly, I expect the same in The Gold Cup
There, you got the reaction you wanted CS. So if you were offered 10/1 about a 4/1 shot, you wouldn’t take it?
Depends on the horse/jockey/race
Have yet to hear you answer the point about Sam Thomas making an identical mistake on Denman at Aintree.
I’ve never denied Sam made an error that day but Denman was a shadow of his real self last season
If he’s so good, why did that happen?
All jockeys make mistakes, AP made two at Newbury, the first was recoverable, the second was unforgivable and so obvious, he didn’t give the horse any chance to gather his thoughts, check the way BG presented Punchestowns at the next couple of fences after his blunder last time out
It is more than likely it was your God, your beloved Denman that made the error at both courses.
He’s not my "God" if any horse has ever been my "God" it was Arkle, if his like ever shows up again I’ll re-assess my thinking
Surely this witch hunt will end soon? There’s been 8 threads with people criticising AP McCoy in 3 pages of the "horse racing" section. Most on about the same ride. To be fair, not all those threads were started just to criticise him.
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