- This topic has 84 replies, 38 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 7 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Is it such a surprise that talents deteriorate with age?
I think there are two definite camps here and not too many are for swaying. For me he struggles to make any impact on the major days (not just in the condition races); these days very rarely seems to get any horse to produce a blemish free round (you could argue mistakes cost Nacarat yesterday) and too many horses that he rides pull too hard.
I believe the problems started when he took the job with JP and he has tried to make himself a hold-up jockey. He was always at his best going forwards on a horse – now I suspect it is a case of too many mixed messages. He also stayed relatively injury free for a long period and that almost certainly helped his confidence as well.
Not sure about naming so many jockeys who are better but when placing a bet I see McCoy as no advantage whatsoever when riding against any of the so called top jockeys whether that is over hurdles or fences.
For my money, McCoy is the the only jockey who regularly gets undeserving horses into the winners enclosure. The suggestion that his talent is regressing (regardless of what he is riding) seems groundless to me, on the evidence of the racing I’ve watched this season.
Completely agree with that. Cant think of another jockey who makes the difference between defeat and victory as regularly as McCoy does.
Slightly off thread – A successful punter like Tom Segal knows the jockey is over-factored into the price most of the time, so his remarks when taken in context of the race as a market are spot on, imo.
How many better-than-fair chasers does McCoy actually get on these days? The answer is not very many, and very few in comparison to Walsh. And arguably he gets on less than Thornton, Brennan and Geraghty too.
Is McCoy losing it, or is he simply being made to look bad through a seemingly never-ending succession of marginal animals? I strongly suspect it is the latter.
For my money, McCoy is the the only jockey who regularly gets undeserving horses into the winners enclosure. The suggestion that his talent is regressing (regardless of what he is riding) seems groundless to me, on the evidence of the racing I’ve watched this season.
Correct.
Tom Segal made himself look stupid suggesting he could pick 5 better jockeys on a chaser than A,P McCoy! Mind you he made one of his rare errors putting up Private Be yesterday,on a day where he was getting maximum publicity!It was the Hobbs factor that cost him dear,he fell hook line and sinker!Anyone who knows their racing,knows AP is a genius who made what i call a "human error" on Denman,we all make mistakes!Anyway i notice
Choc Thornton
has landed the ride on Somersby,time to snaffle the 14/1 about him being top jockey me thinks! What with Twist Magic,Medermit,Somersby etc he could give Ruby a run for his money!
Add Bensalem in the William Hill trophy and Sir Harry Ormesher for the Coral Cup to the list!Dont forget Voy Por Ustedes for the Ryanair! Time to get on again!
Tom segal said on TML that Ruby Walsh and Barry Geraghty are the two jocks he would have over Tony Mcoy,i would be happy to have any of them on a horse i owned or had a share in,as for Tom segal i am not a fan i know some people think he is the second coming i think he is overrated by the press and media,i certainly would not have come up with private be on saturday,i am sure he gets winners like everyone else,but i ignore tipsters any way the evidence of my own eyes has stood me in good stead over the years.
I don’t get to see the Morning Line much these days and had no idea what to expect when I saw that Tom Segal was on, but must admit to being quite impressed [possibly because he, I think, agreed with me about the Wichita Linesman ride]; although he got it wrong about Private Be his explanation of why he chose the horse was interesting, particularly as I’m someone that is always looking for the value bet to put my pennies on. On the subject of TML I had heard that McCririck was getting a bit tiresome with his Lord Snooty jibes, and I had to agree with that yesterday.Glad he’s back on TML, however.
How many winners has Segal ridden then eh? Come on Segal tell us?
(C) T mccoy
For my money, McCoy is the the only jockey who regularly gets undeserving horses into the winners enclosure
Thats abolsutely right but at the same time, doesnt still make him the best choice for all horses in all circumstances
All the jockeys have their strengths and weaknesses and its a bit silly to put them into some sort of overall league table
Pricewise a.k.a Tom Segal said on the Morning Line that he wouldn’t have McCoy in his top 5 of chase jockeys.
No he didn’t. He said McCoy wouldn’t have been in his first five choices for Denman. I’m pretty certain that’s what he said anyway.
To echo what alot of people have said, AP doesn’t seem to be getting that many first class rides these days. With one obvious exception of course.
The five I’m happiest backing …. listed in alphabetic order are
Nina Carberry
Barry Geraghty
Timmy Murphy
Dennis O’Regan
Ruby WalshHow does anyone know that these ‘undeserving winners’ would at least in some instances not just travel/jump better in a race for another jockey. If I remember this was discussed in the Wichita Lineman debate.
One must remember the one thing that sets AP McCoy apart from every other Jockey riding today…
He NEVER gives up.
I’m also the beholder of that special quality, in that whenever I’m being paid for my services, I NEVER inexplicably ‘give up’ half way through completion. I get a big slap on the back and all my clients love me all the more for it. Special, I am. I even get a bonus if I’ve managed to salvage a job that I probably should have made easier work of! It’s great
Incidentally – I’m 99% certain that Tom Segal did not utter those exact words, and was infact refering to Jockeys he’d rather have aboard Denman.
That ‘not so good’ jockey, Tony McCoy, won another 2 Lester awards last night.
I only wish he was in the top 5 of Segal’s Mickey Mouse list.
To what extent though has McCoy’s ability been honed by being in the right place at the right time? Had it not been for the simultaneous emergence of the Pipe stable is it possible that McCoy might have taken a different route and achieved only limited success? I wonder who else that was around at that time who might have worn the crown with greater finesse?
Certainly there are probably more sophisticated riders around but none, past or present that I can think of, seem to possess that one vital and exclusive ingredient i.e. a deep-down tenacity and sheer ruthless determination to succeed, borne only of champions in their particular field.
After this cold, hard winter I wouldn’t be surprised if McCoy decided to hang up his boots and take up an Assistant Trainer role somewhere, but where?
KGiven the horses that Segal tips up for Pricewise and Pricewise Extra in Ireland then I reckon he’d list Robbie Power as one of the five.
I think Timmy Murphy is a a beuatiful rider of a horse and thats all Denman wants and needs
I think Timmy Murphy is a a beuatiful rider of a horse and thats all
Denman wants and needs
That’s just crazy.
Timmy Murphy may be a "beutiful rider", but is best known for holding up horses. Denman is a bold jumping front / prominent runner. There is no better rider of a bold jumping front / prominent runner than A P McCoy. His judgement of pace is outstanding.
AP started over here at Fyfield for Toby Balding. He soon came to the top and was identified as a top jockey before taking the job with Martin Pipe.
Over the last 5 years AP’s strike rate over hurdles is 23%.
Over the last 5 years AP’s strike rate over fences is 23%.If he’s so much better over hurdles than fences, can anyone explain why statistics don’t bare this out?
Value Is EverythingI think Timmy Murphy is a a beuatiful rider of a horse and thats all
Denman wants and needs
That’s just crazy.
Timmy Murphy may be a "beutiful rider", but is best known for holding up horses. Denman is a bold jumping front / prominent runner. There is no better rider of a bold jumping front / prominent runner than A P McCoy. His judgement of pace is outstanding.
AP started over here at Fyfield for Toby Balding. He soon came to the top and was identified as a top jockey before taking the job with Martin Pipe.
Over the last 5 years AP’s strike rate over hurdles is 23%.
Over the last 5 years AP’s strike rate over fences is 23%.If he’s so much better over hurdles than fences, can anyone explain why statistics don’t bare this out?
Hardly crazy when you don’t have any idea yourself. Just because he rides so many hold-up races does not mean Murphy is unable to ride a front runner.
You need to email Tom Segal regarding the last question. Personally, I try to avoid AP both over hurdles and fences but I suspect Segal was referring to better class races when any mistakes are likely to make a bigger difference to the final outcome.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.