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I was told by an irate racegoer that Uttox waiting for Plumpton meant that on one of the remaining races Uttoxeter then clashed with Hamilton. (stand corrected if that not the case).
Nope, it certainly did. On at least two occasions in the second half of the afternoon, we – and doubtless other radio services – were previewing three races all in one go, then broadcasting the trio of races one after the other (with appreciable overlap), then having the thick end of 20 minutes before the next race (rather than preview-race-review-preview-race-review, etc).
Bit frustrating for us, and maddening as hell for the listeners. Having to miss part or all of some races really ought to be the preserve of the busiest Saturdays and Bank Holidays only, surely?
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Just appoint a raceday coordinator whose role is to liase with the courses directly when a course misses its slot and this would all be so easily solved.
A position that would pay for itself several times over.Great idea RH, and like all the best ones, simple, and easy to implement.
It is a good idea yet isn’t in itself a remotely full-time role. We have someone who performs that function in addition to his normal role Monday to Friday and I really don’t believe it should be asking too much for Stewards on the day at a weekend to avoid clashing with other meetings, with the emphasis being on the meeting that’s running behind.
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So you have someone in a co-ordination a role, as well as stewards whom you believe should be capable of communicating effectively with another racecourse, and yet clashes still occurred?
Primary school nativities run more smoothly than a raceday under the BHA.
There is someone who is office based on Monday to Friday who helps to co-ordinate any amendments to off times Monday to Friday. At a weekend the responsibility lies with the Stewards.
On a different but related point, do you think there is any chance of getting agreement between the British and Irish authorities to avoid significant clashes – the type that are to the detriment of betting in both jurisdictions – as well?
An example would be the Gr1 Matron Stakes at Leopardstown and the Gr3 September Stakes at Kempton on September 5th. Both races were scheduled to be off at 2:40 and were indeed run concurrently.
The authorities in both countries know that the two races were of significant interest to punters on both sides of the Irish Sea and yet nothing of mutual benefit was done to avoid a clash.
As a matter of interest, how much, if any, dialogue is there between the authorities in Britain and the authorities in Ireland?
Pru – we (BHA) do try to avoid clashes with Irish meetings as much as possible but I think it’s safe to say that it almost always involves us having to change our times. If they have meetings broadcast on RTE then they have to race to when the broadcaster wants so might be limited to how flexible they can be.
There is someone who is office based on Monday to Friday who helps to co-ordinate any amendments to off times Monday to Friday. At a weekend the responsibility lies with the Stewards.
The BHA should be embarrassed to admit that. Racing is a 7-day a week industry. Trainers, jockeys, stable staff, betting staff, and the press appreciate it, it’s about time that the authorities did. Surely there’s more chance of races clashing on a busy Saturday than a quiet Monday as well. I was going to ask if you give the weekend stewards extra training to deal with this greater responsibility, but we know from Sunday’s actions that you don’t.
Thanks, Silvoir. Might I suggest that this is an area in which an agreement should be sought that involves an appropriate amount of give and take from both sides? Glad to learn that the BHA at least considers it an issue.
There is someone who is office based on Monday to Friday who helps to co-ordinate any amendments to off times Monday to Friday. At a weekend the responsibility lies with the Stewards.
The BHA should be embarrassed to admit that. Racing is a 7-day a week industry. Trainers, jockeys, stable staff, betting staff, and the press appreciate it, it’s about time that the authorities did. Surely there’s more chance of races clashing on a busy Saturday than a quiet Monday as well. I was going to ask if you give the weekend stewards extra training to deal with this greater responsibility, but we know from Sunday’s actions that you don’t.
Agree – would also add given the track record the British stewards seem to have with regards to correct decisions, not seeing incidents, amending results are they really the right people to leave in charge of race times?
Racecourse Manager ie. a fully paid professional would no doubt be a far better organiser of race times and ensuring meetings don’t clash.
‘It is a good idea yet isn’t in itself a remotely full-time role.’
This is where I fundamentally disagree. Clearly a coordinator would not be used every day but as no one can predict which days will turn out like last Sunday they need to be on duty every day. This is because the cost of clashes to the industry continues in my view to be massively underestimated.
To show how cost effective such a role would be consider the following :
Estimate of cost to provide full time coordinator cover £40k p.a.
Number of UK betting shops (not including net or exchanges) 8,000
Number of clashes on Sunday as per previous posts : 5That means to break even on turnover (not profit) the clashes would have had to cost each shop £5 or £1 per clash. This to me is clearly far less than would be the case and this is just for one day alone. Multiply this through by the number of days where clashes occur and the cost to the industry and hence the levy far exceeds 40k so a full time role is well justified by cost/benefit analysis.
Therefore there is a strong case for the Levy Board itself to fund the role with the BHA only having to give permission for direct liaison and control for the coordinator to override the stewards.
The current add on Monday to Friday approach makes no sense.. Firstly it treats the task as a firefighting one and as an add on to an existing role which does not allow the developemnt of expertise etc.
Secondly having admitted the stewards route is not the right one they are handed back control on two of the busiest days of the week and in terms of Saturday where the solutions are the most complex and the cost of clashes the greatest.It just makes no logical sense to me.
The current weekend system is also at the "mercy" of the various Stewards involved and we all know the standards can vary immensely – bring on professional stewards – but that’s another bugbear of mine.
Just to redress the balance – when done properly it does work well – I was at Ffos Las on Leger Saturday and there was a potential clash with the big race.
It was announced over the Ffos Las PA that the 3:05 race would not start until after the Leger and, they also broadcast the Leger over the PA – the delay was no more than five minutes, everyone knew what was happening and there were no complaints.
The key thing is the public, on-course, were kept informed and I recall from the background chatter that ATR also made the point as well.
Communication is so vitally important.
I have seen many examples, especially where a meeting has been abandoned, where race times have been shifted to allow for even gaps and although the time changes has been announced in the press room there has often been no announcement to the public at the course – that is a fundamental, unforgivable, error.
There is someone who is office based on Monday to Friday who helps to co-ordinate any amendments to off times Monday to Friday. At a weekend the responsibility lies with the Stewards.
It’s not working though is it? the chap in the office is ineffective, when he is required for action, quite often nothing happens.
Only recently things were running smoothly midweek until the last races when there was a problem but both races were allowed to go off simultaneously, that is not an isolated case as threads are often started on the Betfair forum asking if the BHA race co-ordinator is still out at lunch as nothing has happened to avert a clash.
Why would you expect stewards at a meeting at the weekend to have their finger on the pulse of what is happening elsewhere at 3 or 4 other meetings? Surely they should be concentrating on what is going on at their own meeting?It’s not working though is it? the chap in the office is ineffective, when he is required for action, quite often nothing happens.
By my reckoning there have been around 1400 races run on British racecourses since the begining of August – with the exception of last Sunday – where it has been admitted in hindsight the wrong decision was made by the Stewards at Uttoxeter, but the original decision was made in good faith. And the odd Saturday where the simple number of meeting may cause races to overlap, particular when Flat & NH are combined on the day – I’d be amazed if more than a dozen races thoughtout this period went off at the same time. In fact make that half a dozen.
I think some people are getting their knickers in a twist over nothing. Has anyone got the figures?
That Hamilton could ever ‘clash’ with a jumps meeting is an oxymoron of epic proportions.
Veering from the worst of practices to the best, full marks to Chester for delaying one of their races long enough last Saturday afternoon to avoid any overlap between it and the big chase at Market Rasen. And this on a busier afternoon than the problematic Sunday which preceded it!
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
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