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Somewhat charmless article in the inde

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  • #1118
    clivex
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    • Total Posts 3420

    http://sport.independent.co.uk/general/ … 355903.ece

    Chris Mcgrath is an ok journalist but some very cheap comemnts here. Especially at the end

    doesnt really matter, but cant we all just enjoy the day?

    I was as thrilled for Nina as anyone…although im not a british trainer

    #46096
    Andrew HughesAndrew Hughes
    Member
    • Total Posts 1904

    The whole Britain v Ireland thing is tedious and serves to inject an unsavoury note of nationalism and division into what should be a coming together of the wider racing family. Had a similar experience at Edgbaston last year. I didn’t go to support England and hope that Pakistan would lose, I went to watch a game of cricket. Unfortunately, the ground seemed full of partisan supporters and in that atmosphere, it became very difficult to simply enjoy the game. Channel 4 don’t help, with their keeping the score after every race.

    And it goes for both sides. Thornton’s brandishing of the Union Jack was just as tedious as any amount of tricolour waving.

    #46098
    davidbrady
    Member
    • Total Posts 3901

    The Irish vs English is hyped up by the media more than anyone. Alistair Down was the first to mention it yesterday.

    The jockeys obviously don’t pay too much heed to it either. Philip Carberry refused 2 tricolours when coming in on Sublimity yesterday and McCoy playfully tried to pull the Union Jack from Choc Thornton after the Arkle.

    #46099
    Aragorn
    Member
    • Total Posts 2208

    Surprisingly the three British winners were all ridden by english jockeys (Glassonbury is english isn’t he?)… McCoy will probably end up scoring for both sides and you wouldn’t bet against Ruby doing the same..

    #46101
    Lovely Lady
    Member
    • Total Posts 160

    What I saw on Thornton was the Cross of St George not the Union Jack and I thought it was quite nice actually, made a fun change.   <br>Perhaps we should see more of it after all every other country in the world seems only too quick to bring their flags out on such festival and sporting occasions.  We only see it during the World Cup.   One wonders if this is what’s wrong here with us is that a number of people seem to think it wrong to do so, thereby letting in extreme right wing elements to commandeer it for themselves.

    Personally as an ardent Europhile I’d be just as happy to  see all us Europeans, Irish included, waive the Euro flag myself.:)   this bit of localised flag waving I shall put down to subsidiarity.

    <br>(Edited by Lovely Lady at 12:49 pm on Mar. 14, 2007)<br>

    (Edited by Lovely Lady at 12:54 pm on Mar. 14, 2007)

    #46104
    SirHarryLewisSirHarryLewis
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1194

    Quote: from Aranalde on 10:45 am on Mar. 14, 2007[br]The whole Britain v Ireland thing is tedious and serves to inject an unsavoury note of nationalism and division into what should be a coming together of the wider racing family. Had a similar experience at Edgbaston last year. I didn’t go to support England and hope that Paki forstan would lose, I went to watch a game of cricket. Unfortunately, the ground seemed full of partisan supporters and in that atmosphere, it became very difficult to simply enjoy the game. Channel 4 don’t help, with their keeping the score after every race.

    And it goes for both sides. Thornton’s brandishing of the Union Jack was just as tedious as any amount of tricolour waving. <br>

    I agree and dont agree.

    Firstly lets get things straight.  The Ireland vs Britain spin is or was historically more fervant in Ireland.  There are obvious geo-political reasons for this.

    Secondly, its far less pronounced now than it was and it exists only to small extent among knowledgeable racing people.

    Thirdly, done in the right spirit, it gave the festival extra spice and was overall a good thing.  Perhaps just for us paddies though!!  Even today I am occasionally a little shocked at the little parochial attitude of some…but very very few of our british neighbours so i like when irish trained horses advertise just how good our racing over here is.

    I think you have to realise though that racing and cheltenham has to be sold to people to the general public just like any other sport.  Given the nature of how most popular sports exist, the idea of a rivalry is the most obvious way of doing it.  Other than that, why should your average joe soap care when horse a beats horse b.  

    Flag waving?  Well lets get away from the word tedious.  A horse walking in with a tricolour cant be less tedious than a horse walking in without one. It makes no difference unless you were expecting something else.  The simple fact is that people use the word tedious because they dont like people shoving nationalism in there face, perhaps feel a little uncomfortable or riled and yet dont want to be seen as being sensitive or even worse, considerd bigots themselves.  This is the same reason why a lot of us here also feel uncomfortable about waving a flag.  

    But is flag waving a bad thing??  Well in Ireland our native games, have a lot of local flag waving but all done in the right spirit in a game that familys can attend and fans sit together.  Ive lived in Scandinavia where flag waving is huge among peoples who spend huge amounts of time worrying about how not to antagoise other people from abroad.  What Im saying is that flag waving is perfectly acceptable if done to support your your own team or locality.

    The trouble is that it has been sullied by people who go to football matches to shout abuse at the other fans. It has been sullied by nations that are being led into uncomfortable international and use the flag as a rallying call and its sullied by people who burn it to show there distaste.

    SHL

    #46105
    Andrew HughesAndrew Hughes
    Member
    • Total Posts 1904

    It is tedious because I have said, the triumphs are personal ones and nationality has absolutely nothing to do with it. Until the Cheltenham festival becomes a team event it is entirely irrelevant whether the winner is Irish, English, Scottish or Mongolian.

    Perhaps my view is a little extreme – I get annoyed watching the Olympics when all we get to hear about are the British athletes and the World Cup for the same reasons.

    I suppose to be more accurate, it isn’t the flag waving itself that is the problem, but the fact that journalists and media types pick up on it.

    #46107
    Meshaheer
    Member
    • Total Posts 486

    As a (rare) British patriot, I’m all for country pride and flag waving. Most of the time it’s harmless, and it’s just a bit of friendly rivalry in the case of Cheltenham. I have my own reasons for being patriotic which are more political but this isn’t a politics thread!

    I don’t find it tedious, and I find nothing wrong with the Irish waving their flag when they beat the Brits – there’s nothing like beating your rivals on their home turf! It’s hardly a parade of extreme right wing nutjobs (what most people wrongly associate patriotism with).

    The media love to spin anything into a frenzy, and SirHarryLewis points out, the rivalry between Britain and Ireland is a good starting point for getting the Festival "out there" to the general public.

    However as a racing fan I will add that turning racing into a nationality sport is a difficult one, as often the horse will have been bred in one country, trained in another, and owned/trained/ridden by people with different nationalities themselves. International jockey’s events often work well though for novelty value.

    #46109
    johnjdonoghue
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    • Total Posts 994

    Why do some people get so hung up on this? Its only a bit of harmless fun. The world is getting so PC and boring IMO.

    JohnJ.

    #46111
    stevedvg
    Member
    • Total Posts 1137

    What I saw on Thornton was the Cross of St George not the Union Jack and I thought it was quite nice actually, made a fun change.  

    Why the ****
    did he have an English flag?

    Surely, in the scheme of all this "English winners" and "Irish winners", that one was a Scottish winner.

    (after all, it’s not the nationality of the owner or jockey, nor the horse’s breeding – it’s the trainer that counts)

    Steve

    #46113
    Andrew HughesAndrew Hughes
    Member
    • Total Posts 1904

    The reference to political correctness is baffling, so I’ll pass over that without comment. Isolated examples of people waving flags is hardly the end of the world. I just wouldn’t like the Festival to become all about Britain v Ireland because I think that nationalism has the potential (I put it no stronger than that) to overshadow what the sport is really about. It has happened in cricket and I personally dislike it. Others may disagree.

    Meshaheer makes a really good point though about the mixed nationalities of some combinations of horse/jockey/trainer, Denman being another example today. I enjoyed the racing today and for me, it is about the individuals involved, the work, the sacrifices and the triumphs. Couldn’t give a flying dismount where any of them came from.

    #46114
    johnjdonoghue
    Member
    • Total Posts 994

    How is it baffling Arandale? Some people are obviously sensitive about a flag being waved around the winner enclosure at a horse racing festival. What exactly is the problem with waving a flag of ones country, it does seem to offend a certain bunch of people…..

    JohnJ

    (Edited by johnjdonoghue at 6:07 pm on Mar. 14, 2007)

    #46115
    Andrew HughesAndrew Hughes
    Member
    • Total Posts 1904

    My objection is to the idea that Cheltenham is all about Britain v Ireland and to the idea that it matters in the slightest where the winning horse/trainer/jockey comes from. I merely stated that I think to reduce such a glorious sporting occasion to the level of a simple Ireland v Britain contest does the sport a disservice. This has nothing to do with ‘political correctness’ (a phrase which is flung about all over the place these days) which is why I was baffled by your comment. As I said in an earlier post, it is the media’s portrayal of this as an Anglo-Irish competition that is I think lazy and potentially damaging. I’m not offended and I don’t think I ever said that I was, just concerned about this one relatively minor issue.

    But hey, its been a great day’s racing, lets not squabble about something peripheral. Looking forward to the World Hurdle tomorrow

    #46120
    wilsonlwilsonl
    Participant
    • Total Posts 860

    So, a horse originating from France, trained by an English trainer and ridden by a Scottish jockey  – PMSL, only joking I lived up there, nicest people I’ve ever met but with all them deep fried pizza’s – yes that’s the new craze, it aint going to happen for a while, ridden by an Irish jockey the country means **** all and fair play to Carberry for tossing the TC away. Plus Choc did seem a little embarrased with the GC.

    If it wasn’t for the breeding from Ireland – and how many French breds have looked good in March ?, the last few years we’d have missed many good horses.

    #46124
    SirHarryLewisSirHarryLewis
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1194

    Quote: from Aranalde on 7:30 pm on Mar. 14, 2007[br]My objection is to the idea that Cheltenham is all about Britain v Ireland and to the idea that it matters in the slightest where the winning horse/trainer/jockey comes from. I merely stated that I think to reduce such a glorious sporting occasion to the level of a simple Ireland v Britain contest does the sport a disservice. This has nothing to do with ‘political correctness’ (a phrase which is flung about all over the place these days) which is why I was baffled by your comment. As I said in an earlier post, it is the media’s portrayal of this as an Anglo-Irish competition that is I think lazy and potentially damaging. I’m not offended and I don’t think I ever said that I was, just concerned about this one relatively minor issue.

    But hey, its been a great day’s racing, lets not squabble about something peripheral. Looking forward to the World Hurdle tomorrow<br>

    Well is rugby for example a worse sport because of the nationality thing??

    You see Im not disagreeing with you as such. Im just saying that it has to be advertised to general public and this is the simplest way to do it.  It might damage the nobleness of the sport in your eyes.

    Of course, Horseracing cant really be sold as a national team game by and large because anyone with any knowledge of it will see that that doesnt operate that way.  But then again, cycling isnt a national team event apart from the world championship and theres lots of flag waving there.  But thats the key really, a guy runs along a bicycle with a union jack to support a guy struggling up a hill.  He is not doing to get other peoples noses.

    SHL

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