The home of intelligent horse racing discussion
The home of intelligent horse racing discussion

soft ground

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 21 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #2729
    Irish Stamp
    Member
    • Total Posts 3181

    Sire stats IMHO help alot EC, particularly in regard to things like ground/horse, sire’s progeny on a surface, soundness etc.

    An example is FuPeg, I’ve thought this for a while and I’m sure someone will come and disagree with me but I really don’t like his progeny running on turf, there are a number of high profile examples of this – In Excelsis, Scandinavia, Race For the Stars etc in Europe, they seem to run a really nice debut race and then when you up them in class they freeze.

    It’s just something I’ve picked up on and I know he can sire more than useful turf performers but as an all-round sire of top class turf animals he’s not for me, particularly on soft ground.

    #72443
    clivex
    Member
    • Total Posts 3420

    Something that has interested me and wish there was more easy access to this type of information

    It makes sense…

    Im a long way from being a breeding expert but surely ability to handle going is largely down to the physical make up and this is whats passed down…

    Sadlers wells being a prime example of producing horses that like give…

    If anyone can point me in direction of useful database for this…would be apprecaited

    #72444
    dandan
    Member
    • Total Posts 199

    http://www.flatstats.co.uk might be of some help, but its a pay site and can be extremely complicated although thorough. A list of sires with stats would be very helpful in my opinion.

    #72445
    empty wallet
    Member
    • Total Posts 1631

    EC

    Progeny stats are useful, but using them on lightly raced horses is risky.

    If you’ve got time, look at the other progeny in detail via distance raced, price, stable profile, finishing position, race type

    #72446
    threenaps
    Participant
    • Total Posts 303

    <br>If its any help to you I read somewhere that horses with large feet will handle soft and heavy going better than those with smaller feet,something to do with what happens when the foot hits the ground and goes in.

    #72447
    Irish Stamp
    Member
    • Total Posts 3181

    Those with a more rounded action are likely to go better on soft ground rather than those with a low smooth action who are likely to appreciated good or firmer ground, or so I’m led to believe.

    #72448
    empty wallet
    Member
    • Total Posts 1631

    Looking at Sire/Dam progeny there is a big question mark about Don Pietro getting home over this trip on soft or slower

    #72449
    empty wallet
    Member
    • Total Posts 1631

    Just using Sire/Dam race is between Forrager, Power Broker and possibly Ravish, if you then include trainer profile then Power Broker looks the one to be on<br>

    #72450
    empty wallet
    Member
    • Total Posts 1631

    Quote: from empty wallet on 12:09 pm on May 29, 2006[br]

    using them on lightly raced horses is risky.

    enuff said imo

    #72451
    sberry
    Member
    • Total Posts 1801

    it’s information you can’t ignore when you have nothing much else to go on.  i’ll look at the sire and dam going form as well as siblings but as already said, it’s never enough in risky races where there is no real form to go with.  for me, looking at sire form preference for this sort of race would be like desperately trying to find a reason to lay or play in a race that should be avoided, unless one knows differently.

    #72452
    empty wallet
    Member
    • Total Posts 1631

    Quote: from EC on 2:31 pm on May 29, 2006[br]

    As you say EW..one goes wrong..best not pursue this..must be a poor way I reckon.:o

    <br>

    EC

    Where have i said it’s not an avenue to investigate?

    <br>As said, it’s risky on lightly raced horses, some, in fact a few, will go on ground that progeny stats say, they maybe shouldn’t, but when they run on it later don’t seem to handle it, this is because of the make up of the race.

    This race looked to fall into the hands of DP for various reasons(Power Broker pulling, Forrager is a tad unreliable  etc) and i would be willing to take it on under the same conditions in the right race

    #72453
    sberry
    Member
    • Total Posts 1801

    definitely not a silly idea.  it is good information but probably just not very useful for such an iffy race.  if i’m looking for big priced unraceds in maidens i’ll be encouraged if sire/dam/siblings have gone on the ground before and i like to use this when needing to pass the time between punting races.

    a better example would be the 4.20 at leicester – will granny peel go on the ground ?  whilst it’s sire redback (who’s having a fair start with it’s 2yos) had all it’s wins on good going or better, it didn’t ‘not’ perform on softer going.  it’s dam bacchanalia also won her only race on soft ground.  granny peels only previous run on g-s (probably more good) can be ignored for the shenanigans and while i think wolves polytrack is slower than lingfield and therefore slower than g-f, the horse ain’t got reliable form on the soft – so the sire and dam’s performances on soft gives me some encouragement as i already had granny peel down as the winner.

    where’s your lays gone ? – put em in the lays and plays section as i find it good to read opinions on races i haven’t looked.  i might not always agree with em but this is what this forum is for, isn’t it ?  

    #72454
    sberry
    Member
    • Total Posts 1801

    i’m beginning to think you may be a member of flat stats or some such other thing ;) either that or you have created the db to end dbs

    the imperialistic race was crossed off my list of playing races as soon as i saw it – couldn’t back it and won’t lay it – don’t like coin-toss races

    #72455
    sberry
    Member
    • Total Posts 1801

    i generally draw the line at sire/dam – i understand the saying you can’t have too much information but i don’t have too much time or the desire to force myself into playing with stuff i consider marginal and wonder about the relevance of going too far back sometimes.  they say stats never lie but where i come from you can make stats say whatever you want to, too ;)

    #72456
    Smithy
    Member
    • Total Posts 720

    Quote: from EC on 3:04 pm on May 29, 2006[br]I’ll have a look at Granny, Simon

    In the 3.10..Imperialistic at Leicester..when stock of Imperial Ballet get turned out within 7 days..they do poorly when fav or 2nd fav..worth taking on at odds on..<br>

    Presumably you need to enhance the database to include in-foal progeny of Imperial Ballet running within 7 days of a win (on a Monday) ;)

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 21 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.