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One of the things that worries me most about modern life is that people who wear their illiteracy and bigotry like a badge of honour seem to think that their opinions count not just as much as the next man’s but more so.
People should try spelling correctly, writing coherently, arguing logically, and then people just might take the points they make seriously.
If I could be reincarnated, I would come back every time as the son of a one-legged lesbian single mother than the son of a bigot and a fool.
But, I would not deny the latter his biological "right" to breed or adopt any more than I would deny him the right to read The Daily Mail.
Pru from Kew, I see your having a right go at the not so fortunate as you, I hate bigots just like the next man, but I hate snobs also, who happen to be born to a well to do middle class family, gauranteed a good education and similar well to do friends as your peers.
A lot of the bigotry and ignorance has a lot to do with the massive class difference that existed and still exists in society. Broken homes, violent alcoholic fathers, a lot of these kids didn’t deserve to be born into that sort of life, some of these kids do really well for themselves others drop out of school early, get mixed up with the criminal element and end up with a life of crime, or become alcoholics at a an early age.
Before you down the fools and the bigots Prufrock. Who created the fools and the bigots and the crime ridden working class areas ??. Your middle class ancestors of course. Excuse me if I might have misspelt a word during my rant, as a misspelling seems to upset you so much, such triviality !Oh by the way I didn’t come form a broken home, my father wasn’t an alcoholic as my over religious mother kept that in check, a good loving working class home, but not every child is so fortunate.
Marb, I take back my earlier assertion that you were a "fecking idiot".
Turns out that you’re a fanny.
Madman, I understand what you are saying, but I didn’t read Prufrock’s post like that. As far as I can see, he was having a go at bigotry and illiteracy and those who are proud of it. How does that equate to having a go at the working class?
I come from a working class background and went to an ordinary comprehensive school, but I was brought up to believe in the value of education and when arguing or discussing in public, to try to express myself logically and coherently. I detest snobbery as much as anyone but there was no snobbery in Prufrock’s post. In fact it was you who made the connection between ‘bigots and fools’ and the working class. There is as high a proportion of bigots and fools attending Eton as there are in the inner cities.
On the subject of spelling, there is no need to be so touchy. No-one wants this forum to become a place where people are frightened to post for fear of having their spelling pored over – we all make mistakes and it shouldn’t be a problem. However, if I were making an argument, I would take the extra care to make sure I got important words right – every computer has a spellcheck facility so it really isn’t difficult – not least as a courtesy to anyone who had to read my post.
So far, I have found Marb’s posts to be poorly thought-out, incoherent and riddled with lazy spelling, as though they are dashed off without consideration. If he can’t be bothered to spell properly, why should I be bothered to take his arguments seriously?
I’m sorry, Marb, I haven’t a clue what you are talking about. I can usually grasp the thread of what you are saying but this time you have me baffled.
Prufrock, as far as I can see, criticised bigotry and illiteracy. Madman appeared (as I understood it) to take exception and suggested that Prufrock was criticising the working class, an interpretation that I thought was incorrect. I haven’t said you were bigotted, I just responded to Madman’s post.
Your post in reply makes absolutely no sense. Equations? What are you on about?
I’m sure you know what you mean, but do us all a favour and express yourself more clearly.
leave the lower classes and uneducated people alone, i need someone to serve me my pint and mcdonalds
anyway, back to the thread which after a shocking beginning and surprising me by lasting this long has turned into a more relevant discussion on what should the nhs provide and to who
fat people cost this country twice as much in health care as smokers, drinkers and drug addicts combined so let’s make anyone with a bmi over standard either pay for their own healthcare or pay income tax at the same number as their bmi or stop any benefits they receive until their bmi is below standard
then there will be plenty of money in the nhs for sex changes and designer babies
new zealand don’t mess about : http://www.newsdaily.com/Quirks/UPI-1-20071117-15372800-bc-newzealand-fatwife.xml
First of all, there’s no such thing as ‘poor illiteracy’, it doesn’t make sense. You mean illiteracy.
Prufrock linked bigotry and illiteracy because these are things he doesn’t like. That is the link between them.
Madman seemed to assume that Prufrock was having a go at the working class. Having read Prufrock’s post, I can see no evidence that in talking about bigotry and illiteracy, he meant the working class. That is why I posted.
Is it just me or is this thread turning into something written by Lewis Carroll?
Maybe I was mistaken Aranalde, but you have to admit Prufrocks comments do come acorss a bit condescending.
Been from Kew Palace, is nearly a dead giveaway as to his upbringing
Oh by the marb, Mikky Mo has posted again today.
is that ‘wonker’ as in ‘Willie Wonker’ so are we in Roald Dahl land as well as Lewis Carrol….
Madman seemed to assume that Prufrock was having a go at the working class. Having read Prufrock’s post, I can see no evidence that in talking about bigotry and illiteracy, he meant the working class. That is why I posted.
I also took Marz’s "Pru from Kew" epiphet as a clumsy attempt at equating Pru’s social class with his current location, thereby overlooking anybody’s propensity to move around the country as work or other personal circumstances require.
My own current location in a reasonably safe, secure and – yes, if one wishes to broach it in such terms, middle class – area of Hertfordshire utterly belies a spectacularly ordinary upbringing on the Pennines and a comprehensive school education in Oldham.
Any hypothesis that illiteracy and bigotry levels are inextricably linked to social class fails for as long as the likes of John Humphrys and Nick Griffin continue to provide exceptions at either end of the spectrum.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
Maybe I was mistaken Aranalde, but you have to admit Prufrocks comments do come acorss a bit condescending.
Nope.
Been from Kew Palace, is nearly a dead giveaway as to his upbringing
Nope again.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
is that ‘wonker’ as in ‘Willie Wonker’ so are we in Roald Dahl land as well as Lewis Carrol….
"thereby overlooking anybody’s propensity to move around the country as work or other personal circumstances require."
Good point graysonscolumn.
Maybe I was mistaken Aranalde, but you have to admit Prufrocks comments do come acorss a bit condescending.
Nope.
Been from Kew Palace, is nearly a dead giveaway as to his upbringing
Nope again.
gc
One of the great intellects of the forum sticking up for one of the other great intellects.
Alright he is not originally from Kew Jeremy, did he move from Tunbridge Wells ?
did he move from Tunbridge Wells ?
*sigh* No….
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
did he move from Tunbridge Wells ?
*sigh* No….
Do you not get the tongue and cheek Jeremy ?
Ok Davros, sex-change I’ll perhaps give you.
Abortion though? Are you advocating, therefore, that women who want an abortion should be forced to go to back-street hatchet-men, rather than have this operation on the NHS? Or are you advocating that, as they got themselves knocked-up in the first place, they should be forced to go through with it, and deal with the consequences?
That to me seems much more a moral stance, than one which seeks to preserve NHS resources for more ‘deserving’ ailments. If it’s money your worried about, you may want to consider the incidental cost to society (tangible and intangible) of an unwanted child. But that’s an altogether different argument, for a different thread, which I can confirm now, I can’t be arsed getting into.
I would argue that it is every woman’s right to conceive – that’s why they have quims, after all
, and any woman who is infertile but wishes to have a child, probably feels that she does indeed have an ‘illness’ of some description.I just don’t agree with abortion, I don’t think you should get rid of a child because it doesn’t suit your life style. I wouldn’t make it illegal, I just don’t think I should be contributing to the wholesale slaughter of unborn children by paying taxes. If a woman gets pregnant she should go through with the birth and deal with the consequences, or get the baby adopted. The cost to society of an unwanted child I believe is blown out of all proportion, there’s a waiting list of people, who can’t have IVF, wanting to adopt a baby. No need for horrible murder. Oh and yes, it is a moral stance.
Did someone pick someone up on their spelling, tut-tut .. that’s the lowest of the low in forum behaviour imo.
I expect the lesbians in question may well have cultured a whole clan of test-tube sprogs by now.
Although I’m coming from a different perspective on abortion to you, I’m not sure the ‘unwanted child’ cost is overstated to be honest dave. In the broadest terms, the human race is remarkably successful at procreating, curing illnesses and living ever longer. On a personal level, the ability to have children can be amazingly important, but globally we cannot continue unchecked without facing some (considerable) consequences.
It is easier for me to be pro-choice as I have no morals. No, scrub that. I mean, I have no strong religious beliefs, and I can see that abortion can conflict with these. However, given that we can avoid unwanted pregnancies resulting in unwanted children, I think we probably should at least make the option available. (I have no argument with the idea that ‘we’ should be careful and safe first and foremost, however…)
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