The home of intelligent horse racing discussion
The home of intelligent horse racing discussion

Scottish Grand National

Home Forums Horse Racing Scottish Grand National

Viewing 12 posts - 1 through 12 (of 12 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #21538
    sberry
    Member
    • Total Posts 1801

    Next weekend, 21st April.

    Last year 2 horses died and the year before that saw another 2 end their careers when only 7 finished. As we have time should we cancel the race, before it’s too late?

    #400882
    crizzy
    Participant
    • Total Posts 789

    Why, are they moving the Aintree fences to Scotland?

    But seriously, the Ayr fences are just ‘normal’ aren’t they? so it’s just another long distance chase…it’s the make up of the fences at Aintree that are the issue. Don’t know how many runners there are allowed in SGN or what the ground is.

    Another couple of deaths up there though will be highlighted no doubt…

    Crizzy

    #400887
    graysonscolumn
    Participant
    • Total Posts 6965

    Don’t know how many runners there are allowed in SGN or what the ground is.

    Maximum field of 30, with the Ayr fences (all bar the first in straight) being exceptionally long, wide permanent obstacles by conventional racecourse standards.

    The tentative forecast for Monday night through to Thursday afternoon (as things currently stand) is wet, wet, wet.

    gc

    The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.

    #400891
    Bachelors Hall
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1602

    I’ve just collated the number of fatalities from the last 11 spring nationals. I would give my conclusions but I have to go out;-

    Irish Grand National

    02 – 0
    03 – 0
    04 – Xenophon, Rose Perk
    05 – Native Sessions
    06 – 0
    07 – 0
    08 – Alexander Taipan (?)
    09 – Drumconvis, Wichita Lineman
    10 – 0
    11 – 0
    12 – 0

    Aintree Grand National

    02 – Manx Magic, The Last Fling
    03 – Goguenard
    04 – 0
    05 – 0
    06 – Tyneandthyneagain
    07 – Graphic Approach
    08 – McKelvey
    09 – Hear The Echo
    10 – 0
    11 – Dooney’s Gate, Ornais
    12 – According To Pete, Synchronised

    Scottish Grand National

    01 – 0
    02 – Wishbone
    03 – 0
    04 – 0
    05 – 0
    06 – 0
    07 – 0
    08 – 0
    09 – 0
    10 – 0
    11 – Regal Heights, Minella Four Star

    #400901
    Hurdygurdyman
    Member
    • Total Posts 1555

    How does it compare to the amount of bulls that die in Bullfighting in Spain?

    Is a bull’s life less important to you that would ban the National than that of a racehorses?

    Boxer’s die, skiers die, footballers, Hockey players etc etc……….then of course the above bulls get hurt now and again when they get steel shove through their brain in Spain under the name of sport.

    Sport is a dangerous game learn to live with it. Everyone is trying their best to make it safer but accidents will happen. It’s fine and well saying ban it and to hell with all the people who depend on the Grand Nationals to make a living and the 100’s of thousands of fans who love the sport.

    Do any of you know there was another horse killed at the meeting? I bet you didn’t. He was injured between hurdles on the flat and had to be put down. Is his death any less important to you?

    In this game there are two sides only to the fence. You either accept that these accident will continue to happen or you campaign to ban all racing.

    #400902
    cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 8979

    You either accept that these accident will continue to happen or you campaign to ban all racing.

    Or you continue to introduce improvements which will make it safer, not totally safe, it’ll never be that, but safer.

    This idea (mooted by Matt Chapman most noticeably) that you just say ‘this is what the race is and we’re not going to change it’ is nonsense. You have to look at what is going on, what’s happened, and take action that is designed to imporove things.

    Paul Biittar’s statement was good, in that respect. Calmly look at the facts and evaluate options (of which there are many).

    #400906
    Hurdygurdyman
    Member
    • Total Posts 1555

    Agreed! Of course they should be looking at all the stats and doing what they can. Beechers for example: why on earth does it have to be a drop fence? These horse run all year never see one all of a sudden it’s like someone just pulled the ground away from underneath them.

    The fences being different and the extreme trip is more than enough to tax most horses without setting traps.

    I know owners and trainers dream of winning a National and I’d hate to rob anyone of the chance but 1. these things out of the handicap are a waste of good space and 2. Over crowding is by far the biggest danger to all.

    They have got to reduce the number. The course may look plenty wide enough but when position and saving ground is a factor everyone want the best possie.

    25 would be about right and as far as riders go Amatuers are okm but only after they have ridden x amount of winners. Horses who have fallen or failed to finish 3 times in one season get rid of them under failed to qualify.

    Do all that and you know what> There will still be fatalities but at least they will have tried.

    #400913
    moehat
    Participant
    • Total Posts 8188

    Does anyone have the actual figures relating to fatalities in the Grand National over the past 50 or so years?

    #400917
    Venture to Cognac
    Moderator
    • Total Posts 14095

    In my time moe

    1979 Kintai. Fell at The Chair
    1979 Alverton. Fell at 2nd Bechers.

    1983 Duncreggan. Fell at 1st Canal Turn

    1984 Earthstopper. Collapsed after finishing.

    1987 Dark Ivy. Fell 1st Bechers

    1989 Seeandem. Fell 1st Bechers
    1989 Brown Trix. Fell 1st Bechers.

    1990 Roll-a-Joint. Fell 1st Canal Turn
    1990 Hungary Hur. Broke leg while running towards 19th.

    1991. Ballyhane. Collapsed after finishing.

    1996. Rust Never Sleeps. Broke leg while running towards 13th.

    1997. Straight Talk. Fell 14th.
    1997. Smiths Band. Fell 20th

    1998. Pashto. Fell 1st, heart attack jumping fence, broken neck from fall.
    1998. Do Rightly. Fell 4th
    1998. Griffins Bar. Broke leg while running away from 5th.

    1999. Eudipe. Fell 2nd Bechers.

    2002. Manx Magic. Fell 20th
    2002. The Last Fling. Fell 2nd Canal Turn.

    2003. Goguenard. Brought Down 19th (jumped into by loose horse)

    2006-2008. Thyneandthyneagain, Graphic Approach, and McKelvey all met with misc accidents whilst running loose.

    2009. Hear The Echo. Collapsed on run in.

    2010. Ornais. Fell 4th
    Dooneys Gate Fell 6th

    2011. Synchronised. Injured running loose.
    According To Pete – Brought Down 2nd Bechers.

    #400919
    cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 8979

    Doesn’t make for great reading VTC I have to say.

    #400920
    Bachelors Hall
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1602

    Someone else posted this in another thread (apologies for forgetting who). It seems exhaustive without giving details on field sizes or going.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_eq … d_National

    Incidentally, I also collated the fatalities from the Welsh National;-

    01 – 0
    02 – 0
    03 – 0
    04 – Asparagus
    05 – 0
    06 – 0
    07 – 0
    08 – 0
    09 – 0
    10 – 0
    11 – 0

    This makes for very interesting reading and would appear to offer a strong case for running the Nationals on soft ground.

    #400927
    sharkenergy2012
    Member
    • Total Posts 13

    Every fence at Aintree has had a fatality except for the 10th/26th (one after Valentine’s) and the Water Jump. So if we create 30 of those fences we should be ok right? No more deaths?

    The list above that shows the number of deaths in the National shows 48 from the start until 1989 (150 years worth). Then 21 in the 22 years since then….So the easy fences helped then. Horse pretty much only died at the old monster Becher’s brook beforehand.

Viewing 12 posts - 1 through 12 (of 12 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.