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These arguments go round in so many circles that I don’t really know what many of you want from racing coverage anymore.
By the time you all agree, there won’t be a sport left anyway.
Late to this thread. Enjoy the programme but I’m in agreement regards the data. The data only tells you what happened not what is going to happen next time you see that horse. Same with sectional times, ratings etc they won’t help you come to a bet. You need to use your own judgement with different circumstances next time and horses improving etc… They can be misinterpreted too, Horse X lost so many lengths at a fence so if it jumps better next time it wins. Only Horse X is proven down the years to jump like a wardrobe so the data is irrelevant.
All racing data can be of value/interest to some to varying degrees just as much as it could be of no value/interest to others but any one individual stream of data should be taken with a pinch of salt and shouldn’t be truly relied upon because at the end of the day there is one variable/x factor that can trump any amount of data you do or don’t use……and that is the horse itself.
Yes getting from one side of a fence in the most efficient and economical way possible will be of great assistance against you rivals but in of itself (just like having a preference for a certain type of ground and/or course or a fast pace or a test of stamina) it will not guarantee that a horse will win if they do have those things in their favour in a race.
Just today at Ascot we had Harper’s Brook who overall was very slick in the jumping department compared to his rivals (would be interesting to see if any data comes up on a future program to illustrate that) but any length(s) advantage he gained through his jumping was made wholly irrelevant when once all the jumping was done he simply downed tools on the run in and got beat.
Il Ridoto’s jumping was a joy to watch in the December Gold Cup and visually he was much slicker across his fences than Fugitif who actually won the race despite making one notable mistake and taking longer in the air over his fences than the runner-up.
Data (from all areas) should really only be used to assist you in coming to your own informed decision/choice but I would rather have as much data on as many variables as possible and then be free to pick and choose which of it I feel is of more (or even less) importance to me.
Personally, I roll my eyes everytime I watch McNae practically wet himself praising and marking horses up that have run fast sectional and overall times compared to others……for me sectionals/times are a product of certain set of factors happening in a race which can’t be relied upon to be replicated consistently enough to where it plays any part in the horse I pick for a race, I view other data (ground, course, distance etc) as more valuable.
Still four months to go but RTV is starting its journey on the Road To Cheltenham again tonight. But remember: the Road is just as important as Cheltenham.
No doubt punters friend Ruby Walsh will tell us precisely nothing about any of the Mullins horses again.
Cork All Star.
Road to Cheltenham starts tomorrow night.
Not that its very informative as you said.Lies,damned lies and statistics. If you treat them as a bit of info that may be useful but as in everything in life they don’t tell the whole story. Some horses don’t fire at Cheltenham. Some come alive at Cheltenham. Horses have off days or have wee niggles like human sport people then when the niggles disappear they perform miles better. The expected goals stats in football is the biggest pile of crap I’ve seen regards stats. They are utterly irrelevant as is possession.
The only stat I think is fairly useful is the pace angle.11th March is when I get interested in the Cheltenham Festival.
The more I know the less I understand.
There was no point to last night’s programme. It was mostly a recap of last season and only looked at chasers. There was nothing at all about hurdling.
Walsh looked disinterested and I wish he would stop mumbling. There were a few times when I could barely hear what he was saying, although I doubt it was worth hearing anyway.
It popped up on my You Tube recommendations – so I selected ‘not interested’.
If people enjoy it, and find it useful, good for them.
Until people in the sport realise that 4 days in March is not the season, then we’ll continue to see this.
From the late 80s when I first started following the sort, there were plenty of pots to win beforehand, and Cheltenham was almost a bonus; the icing on the cake of the season.They probably should have started it next week as you would at least have had the November Meeeting fallout to discuss along with Wetherby/Down Royal and then the Betfair Chase/Morgianna Hudle/John Durkan Chase to preview over 23-24 November weekend and the Fighting Fifth/Coral Gold Cup the week after that.
Have to say that I do try to watch the series as the episodes are released (sometimes on RTV/Youtube catch up programs) and I like the content for what it is (simply an opinion based show) – Ruby does have some insight purely from his jockey perspective but he is never going to spill much on the Mullins string other than ‘I have seen horse X and they look well but I am not really sure where they definitely go next but race XYZ are options being considered’.
You might get the odd nugget here or there but I never go into watching the show expecting to hear any earth shattering breaking news or angles into horses/races that I couldn’t/wouldn’t have come to the same conclusion about myself.
Sorry to have to bump this thread up again. This weekend was the first time I’ve properly followed the jumps this season, weather related because it meant we didn’t get out much with the kids and for the first time in a long time I had some spare time on a weekend. Anyway I caught up with both episodes from this seasons Road To Cheltenham’s amongst this yesterday and I think the programme works really nicely as a weekly recap if you’ve literally not seen any racing at all in the week, which could well apply to me some weeks going forwards. It means I can get a brief overview in an hour what would take me several hours in the week. I think in that context it works really well and its not an experience of the show I’ve ever had before as I followed the racing much closer on a daily basis so it was just repeating what I already heard.
I still don’t care for the Racing IQ stuff but Ruby’s opinion I do value as an ex-jockey and it was the one part of the show I looked forward to before when I did follow closer. Lydia’s a good presenter, always felt that. Don’t massively care for either of their opinions on betting related stuff, they are both pretty bad at tipping. I think in fairness to Ruby he’s the one ex-jockey who doesn’t let his past loyalties cloud his judgement. As a contrast if I do catch ITV, the bias coming out of Fitzy and AP is ridiculous, more so Fitzy.
Anyway that’s my two pennies worth, feel free to disagree
I certainly agree about Fitzgerald. I don’t usually watch ITV’s coverage but the bad weather of the last week has made my picture on RTV break up.
In the race Peaky Boy won at Cheltenham last week, Richard Hoiles paused after the horses headed out onto the second circuit to allow Fitzgerald and Luke Harvey to say how they thought the race was going.
It was 1.01 on Betfair that Fitzgerald would focus on the Henderson horse. Sure enough he said “I have been really impressed with Peaky Boy”.
OK, the horse went on to win. But at that stage of the race no one could have been “impressed” by him. De Boinville was already niggling and the horse had put in one or two iffy jumps.
To be fair, Luke Harvey was a lot more objective about the horse and mentioned his jumping. But the damage was already done. The show simply has no credibility with such biased punditry.
I think you have maybe been a little unfair about Lydia Hislop and her tipping. She has put up some good selections in the past. Protektorat in the Ryanair last season was one example.
I agree that Walsh is at least objective about the Mullins horses. Fitzgerald should learn from him.
Mick Fitz is abysmal (not the only though) at best he sits on the fence. He also seems obsessed with horse’s ears, “Have you seen his ears”, “Just look at his ears”, “He’s got honest ears”
Wonder what he made of Do Douce’s ears when winning the Japan Cup, after being keen and dropped out last in a slowly run race.He was wittering on again about sectional times yesterday, as though he knows what he’s talking about. After his abysmal effort regarding sectionals during the Badger Beer I thought he would have given up on them.
Spot on yeats can’t remember what race but he said about ears yesterday may have been Pic D’orhy and I thought why does he keep saying that.
The more I know the less I understand.
Wonder what he made of Do Douce’s ears when winning the Japan Cup, after being keen and dropped out last in a slowly run race.
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