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Not my side of the political divide, but an important and well respected woman who rightly didn’t let politics become personal.
Baroness Shirley Williams RIP
Value Is EverythingAgreed Ginge, her politics were definitely cuckoo – but she certainly came across as a decent human being, a rarity amongst politicians.
RIP Shirley Vivian Teresa Brittain Williams, Baroness Williams of Crosby
It can quickly divide those who hitherto got on famously with each other, so I don’t like getting into politics (which interests me less with every passing day tbh) but it was always my general impression was that the whole idea of wanting to be in the Labour Party was meant to be about caring about others, having a social conscience, a sense of social justice, wanting to see greater equality of opportunity, higher minimum living standards and a fairer society.
And yet so many Labour Party political activists seem to forget all that and become the most nauseating control freaks, who are condescending, patronising, clearly despise the working classes and think they always know what’s best for them.
This lady seemed a rare, balanced, sensible exception.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"She was a Social Democrat rather than ‘labour activist’ for the last 40 years of her life.
She’d have served better by staying in the Labour Party rather than fragmenting it, we might then have been spared at least some of Thatcher’s dark and terrible legacy.Am sure some in Labour would point out you can be a “Labour activist” without being from Militant or Momentum. If Shirley Williams wasn’t a labour activist she did a very good impression of one.
Do you forget what it was like before Thatcher, David? A time of “discontent”, unions ruling the roost (strike after strike after strike). The country on a downward and (it seemed at the time) irreversible spiral. Needing hand outs from Europe and non-profit making industries and business the norm. Yes, Thatcher took it too far, but the country was/is in a much better position after Thatcher than before…
May be you should blame the Labour Party under Foot rather than the gang of four. Labour could not get out of the mud created by the far left. It was they, Foot, Benn (Tony), Hatton and co who fragmented the Labour Party by being too close to the hammer and sickle. If Labour in the late 70’s and early 80’s would’ve been just centre left there would have been no need for Roy, David, Bill or Shirley to leave.
Value Is EverythingWhen Labour is a centre left party there is no need for an SDP or even Liberal party, but unfortunately it can not be relied upon to stay centre left. Always the target for clandestine trotskyist takeovers (Foot, Corbyn etc).
Value Is EverythingThe last three postings illustrate why I don’t get involved in political discussions – most people find it extraordinarily difficult to discuss politics objectively without revealing their political allegiances.
I’m a a left wing, right wing, libertarian, authoritarian, liberal, illiberal btw – a particularly narcissistic one.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"You just did though, get involved in a political discussion I mean.
“most people find it extraordinarily difficult to discuss politics objectively without revealing their political allegiances”
Including you.
And why wouldn’t/shouldn’t they in any case? Are they supposed to be kept a secret?Nothing wrong with having opinions while still discussing objectively, Ian.
If “the last three postings” illustrate what you say; why not the fourth last one too (your own)?
Value Is EverythingThatcher took it too far
There are some of us who would say she didn’t go far enough
Well, GT, possibly because I don’t think it’s possible to be a “left wing, right wing, libertarian, authoritarian, liberal, illiberal” – another Davies attempt at irony comes a cropper at the first!
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"“but it was always my general impression was that the whole idea of wanting to be in the Labour Party was meant to be about caring about others, having a social conscience, a sense of social justice, wanting to see greater equality of opportunity, higher minimum living standards and a fairer society”.
…But other than the “wanting to be in the Labour Party” you could be describing me, Ian.
For me, the vast majority of those interested in politics are interested because they “care about others, having a social conscience, a sense of social justice, wanting to see greater equality of opportunity, higher minimum living standards and a fairer society”… And that goes for all parties.
Each party / politician / party member / person / voter just has a different idea of how to achieve those things and/or what those things actually mean.
Personally, the one thing I don’t like about discussing politics is when one party / person believes their political persuasion gives them a monopoly for caring… And that imo usually comes from the far left and far right. Thankfully – it seemed to me at least – Shirley Williams was not one of them.
Value Is EverythingThat’s interesting, GT, I don’t think any of the Parties has a monopoly on caring, of course, but I do, however, think that Conservatism is predominately about the politics of self whereas the others purport to be otherwise.
However, I do think right-wing Conservatives are more comfortable about this notion than “One Nation” Tories.
I don’t actually identify with any of the political parties personally, but I would have thought it was readily apparent that we live in a country where the Conservatives are the natural party of government.
The Conservatives have been in power most of my lifetime and it seems clear the average person values low personal taxation above public services.
I predict another Conservative win in 2024.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Paul, I know you are not greedy or uncaring so why do you think Thatcher didn’t go far enoug?
She and her lot have generated a generation that is becoming more and more self-centred and selfish.
I agree that SOME trade unionists went too far and needed some restraint but look what we have now.
You have worked in the NHS I thought you would think that with any sort of union strength the 1% rise would have been thrown back in their faces.
Not the “politics of self” or “self-centred” particularly Ian/Colin, Conservatives are more the politics of individual responsibility, which I find unfortunately lacking with some parties. What are Labour? The party of the selfish? Or the politics of envy? Or the politics of gimme?
Value Is EverythingShe had the opportunity to finish off the Unions once and for all but she didn’t. She also backed down on the poll tax – although I would have preferred a form of local income tax myself.
Unions couldn’t give a toss about their members or their members interests – they are just a vehicle for their leaders to push their own, usually extreme, socialist agendas, whilst, of course feathering their own nests, masters of hypocrisy.
The prime example was Scargill who sacrificed his members at the altar of his own political ideology …. and that was another mistake of Thatcher’s, Scargill should have been taken care of.
Unions in the NHS are another case of petty politicking – I’m sure it will be no surprise I gave short shrift when I was told it was “in my interests” to join the union, all they effectively do is reduce productivity and protect their own little cliques.
My philosophy is if you don’t like the pay offer then resign – if enough NHS staff do that the pay rise would soon be reviewed.
You call it self-centred and selfish, I call it taking responsibility for oneself and not relying on the state.
Yes, there should be safety nets in place for those who genuinely need support – but too many benefits are universal when they should not be.
I’m also extremely annoyed with the money that has been pi$$ed up the wall during COVID, some of the spending of Sunak would give Corbyn and McDonnell wet dreams and before anyone brings it up, the money spent on dubious contracts should be the subject of a criminal investigation.
While I was sorry to hear the news that Shirley Williams had died, I do not think we should be so misty eyed about her. One of her most significant “achievements” was championing comprehensive education – but she made sure her own daughter went to a private school.
To be fair, she is not the only left wing politician who did this – but it is a classic example of middle class, left wing “Do as I say, not as I do” hypocrisy.
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