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Retained jockeys

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  • #10733
    Raffingora
    Member
    • Total Posts 58

    Can somebody tell me the features a trainer looks for when retaining a jockey and then I can stop wondering why David Pipe retains Tom Scudamore. He has the occasional high profile winner, as you would expect when attached to a stable of this sort but I wouldn’t back a Tom Scudamore runner with a barge pole. He seems to be very weak in a finish, he always seems very unbalanced round bends and when riding over fences and he seems to be a poor judge of pace, especially on front runners. Perhaps I am being too harsh and I’ve missed his good points but winners are important to stables and loyalty to the son of a former great stable jockey can surely only last for so long.

    #218513
    robnorth
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4819

    I can’t help feeling that the theme of a recent thread seems to be repeating itself. However, I presume you put the 58 winners than Tom Scudamore has ridden this season down to complete accident?

    Rob

    #218523
    Raffingora
    Member
    • Total Posts 58

    No Rob, not at all, although the 11% strike rate is the worst of the 15 leading riders. I must admit that I’m an armchair jockey so my observations are only in comparison with other jockeys I see when I go racing or am watching tv. If you’re telling me that he’s one of the best then your opinion is as good as mine although, as stated in my original post, I’d be interested to know why, and I’m sorry but I’ve not read a similar thread about this so if you can direct me to this I’ll go and read it. I can only write based on what I see and I feel that the the stable would do better with a more skilful jockey but that’s only my opinion of course.

    #218527
    DeadlySins
    Member
    • Total Posts 105

    While I agree that he may not be as good as the elite, you have to remember a lot of the Pipe squad are owned by David Johnson and they tend to usually be a bit better than the rest of the Pipe horses, and Murphy gets those rides.

    I don’t think David Pipe would use him just on the basis he is Peters son, but obviously some people agree with your opinion after Andrew McNamara took over the retainer for the Barr horses just prior to this years festival.

    But forgive me for finishing on a cliche, the Jockey is only as good as the horse beneath him, most of the time anyway.

    Good thread.

    #218549
    Raffingora
    Member
    • Total Posts 58

    Thanks DS. David Pipe currently has about 140 horses listed in training of which only about 25 are owned by David Johnson. He seems to have cut down quite a lot since Martin Pipe retired. He’s got quite a few horses in training with Peter Monteith and Brendan Powell and of course his recent Cheltenham winner Chapoturgeon is trained by Paul Nicholls.
    I only started the thread out of interest because the Pipe stable has always gone to the limits to train winners and jockeys have always been an important consideration e.g AP, Richard Dunwoody, Peter Scu. Perhaps the stable isn’t strong enough now to attract a top rank jockey. The standard of horses at Pond House seems to have diminished considerably recently. I like David Pipe as a person but I think he’s found it tough this year.

    #218551
    robnorth
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4819

    You have to bear in mind that a retained jockey will cover a heck of a lot within the stable. He’ll ride out and do schooling which would be a skill in itself. As well as that while he may be riding regularly he’ll probably be riding many of the stable’s awkward customers, simply because he will no them better than any other riders. This often means getting a horse round safely rather than being guaranteed in the prize money.

    As I said earlier, a record of 58 winners over the season is a creditable performance, something akin to county cricketer averaging 40 a season or a footballer scoring 12 – 15 goals in a season in the Premiership. They may not make it to international class but nevertheless are in the top echelon of their chosen profession and continually turn out decent work.

    Tom Scudamore is comfortably in the top 20% of his profession, while statistics can lie they normally aren’t too far off the mark, and I’m sure most of us would be happy to be considered as such within our professions.

    Rob

    #218557
    Seebald
    Member
    • Total Posts 14

    Raff are you Thomas Barr in disguise and got the hump coz Scu beat The Pious Prince yesterday? You seem to have made a lot of threads on the merit of Mr Scu.

    #218564
    Raffingora
    Member
    • Total Posts 58

    Hi Seebald, what a fantastic name. Seebald was one of my favourite horses. What a race he gave Best Mate at Exeter I think, ridden by Tom Scu!!! I believe Tom Scu looks after him now for which he has my greatest respect. I wish I had Thomas Barr’s money. I actually think Tom Scu rode Osana quite well but i don’t think he’s good enough, for reasons already mentioned, to be a stable jockey for a trainer with real ambition.
    However although I won’t be backing any of his rides, I will be shouting him on when he’s riding a David Pipe horse and nothing would please me more to see him ram my opinion down my throat and if he does I’ll be back on here begging for forgiveness!!!!!

    #218567
    moehat
    Participant
    • Total Posts 7856

    Nothing to do with his skills as a jockey, but I have to say that, when being interviewed Tom comes across as a great ambassador for the sport being pleasant, eloquent and enthusiastic.

    #218574
    DeadlySins
    Member
    • Total Posts 105

    Sorry Raff, I made my point not knowing exactly how many Pipe horses were actually owned by Johnson, I thought it would have been a lot more, ignorance is bliss……..

    Fair play mate when you put the % up I was surprised by the amount of Johnson horses Pipe currently trains, I know loyalty goes a long way in racing but how long before Johnson starts sending a lot more horses elsewhere?

    At the moment how many owners would prefer they’re horse trained by Paul Nicholls rather than David Pipe?

    #218580
    Irish Stamp
    Member
    • Total Posts 3181

    It’s not Tom Scu it’s the yard. You used to be able to rely on the yard to ping the winners in all over the place and if backed you knew it had a great chance.

    Since Pipe Junior took over there’ve been 9/4 to 5/1 drifters win, 8’s into 7/2 not sighted and horses gambled the previous twice winning third time with not a cent on.

    He’s lost at least one high profile horse too and was in major danger of losing his biggest owner at least twice in the past 2 years.

    Martin Pipe was twice the trainer that David is.

    #218582
    davidbrady
    Member
    • Total Posts 3901

    I was about to post something similar Irish Stamp – David Pipe isn’t the same as Martin vis-a-vis ambition and drive although I quite like him – he comes across very well in interviews which is something you couldn’t say about Martin Pipe!

    I’m not sure we should be lamenting the fact that David Pipe hasn’t had a Celtic Son or similar since taking over the reigns at Pond House though.

    #218593
    Spitfire
    Participant
    • Total Posts 184

    Inheriting a stable doesn’t really have a good record does it in this country anyway? tell me where I’m wrong with this lot.

    Jimmy Fitzgerald to Tim, Mary Revely to son, Jack Berry to Alan, Josh Gifford to Nick, Jenny Pitman to Mark, Reg Akehurst to John, Gordon Richards to Nicky, Paul Kelleway to Gaye, Guy Harwood to Amanda, Ken Ivory to Dean.

    Tim Easterby has won 2 group 1’s on the flat and Peter Easterby never won a group race on the flat so he is an exception and David Pipe will never match the acheivements of his father but will be a top classer, Donald McCain looks to be another top classer

    #218609
    rory
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2685

    Nothing to do with his skills as a jockey, but I have to say that, when being interviewed Tom comes across as a great ambassador for the sport being pleasant, eloquent and enthusiastic.

    Had the pleasure of working with Tom for about half an hour at the Cheltenham Festival, and while he isn’t likely to prove that much better as a broadcaster that his dad, he is a genuinely nice guy with no shred of arrogance about him. He is also a much improved jockey in recent years and doesn’t deserve the brickbats he occasionally receives. He’s never going to be one of the greats, but he’s ultra reliable which counts for plenty.

    #218611
    Spitfire
    Participant
    • Total Posts 184

    Moehat posted

    Nothing to do with his skills as a jockey, but I have to say that, when being interviewed Tom comes across as a great ambassador for the sport being pleasant, eloquent and enthusiastic.

    Yes isn’t he refreshing actually seems as if he enjoys giving interviews, most of the others have abysmal communication skills.

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