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Good to Soft – 1.22 seconds fast for a mile.
And this is by no means unusual.
Either French going descriptions or RP standard times are way out.
I know which one I think it is.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I’m sure you are right with regard to the standard times but I also think you can’t really compare French going descriptions with the UK goings of the same name.
In 2020 I rated all the French two year old races – once you take out the all-weather races and the handful of occasions when no official going was published there were about 410 races and these are broken down as follows:
Good to Firm (2.9 or less) 4 (1%)
Good (3.0 – 3.2) 78 (18%)
Good to Soft (3.3 – 3.4) 103 (24%)
Soft (3.5 – 3.7) 82 (20%)
Very Soft (3.8 – 4.1) 68 (16%)
Sticky (4.2 – 4.5) 37 (9%)
Heavy (4.6 – 5.1) 42 (10%)
Very Heavy (5.2 or more) 6 (1.5%)I don’t have the UK figures to compare (and the sample size isn’t huge) but I would be very surprised if 81% of UK flat turf two year old races were on ground that was Good to Soft or slower.
Remember years ago Timeform commented about the French not being as accurate with race distances, Ian. Think it was provoked by times on a Prix Maurice De Gheest day. Sometimes race distances can (or at least could at that time) be considerably shorter than advertised and therefore times appear faster.
Trainers have also complained they’ve gone over being told it’s good-soft and it rides much firmer.
Value Is EverythingInteresting replies, thank you both.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Ian,
In my experience, French going reports are worthless and the only way to get an idea of conditions is to watch the races and make your own judgement. Have a look at this race (link below) from Cagnes Sur Mer earlier this year – I was asked for an opinion on the runner-up, who was being offered for sale to UK trainers by an agent pushing the horse as proven on soft ground.
The official report gave the ground as Tres Souple – Very Soft. Seeing the amount of dust being kicked up and the fact that the horses and jockeys are as clean at the finish as they were at the start, I rated it good, good to firm in places. And this example is by no means unusual.
Thank you, Alan, also very much appreciated.
My clear impression regarding this aspect of French racing over the years has been that the times often suggest the ground is significantly quicker than described.
I can’t remember too many instances of it being the other way around.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"“The official report gave the ground as Tres Souple – Very Soft. Seeing the amount of dust being kicked up”
I remember being struck by this watching a French race last year. Can’t remember where but a big course on a biggish day anyway I think. Going had soft in the description and Sahara-like clouds getting kicked up the whole way round. I checked after to see if the description had been changed after racing (not that anywhere would dry that fast)- it didn’t and I remember thinking what an absolute nonsense it would be trying to evaluate the form in the book when you were looking for likely horses for a soggy autumn Royal Ascot, for example, unless you had seen the video.
French 2,000 Guineas, “Good to Soft,”
1m 34.98s, 1.22s FASTER than RP standard.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"With regards to the French going descriptions and race distances returned you take both with a big pinch of salt.
Have you never wondered why all the race distances are precise i.e 5f is 5f exactly on every racecourse, the French racecourses only deal in half-furlong increments? you won’t see 5F60yds for example.
I spent ages working on the French standard times for the class 1,2 and 3 racecourses, and it took me a while before I clicked there was something a bit dodgy about the official race distances, but hey live and learn.
These days I only work on Irish and British racing, at least the BHA publishes the rail movements, when the Irish finally get around to measuring their racecourse distances, Dave Edwards did mention to me recently that it will happen “sometime this year”, I will believe that when I see it.
Standard times: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_t6JFfgmzfC3FB9mRvk38VNujNbE6tyI
Flat speed figures:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1m-AoUBuHvh4klcKEzfWscgGdZwn4V53w/view?usp=sharing
NH speed figures:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1k2_rtKO0AUR3YTmKU2WadMHaRLp0XH0R/view?usp=sharingThe above speed figures are from January 2019 to date less WFA, let the flat file load, over +200,000 speed figures.
I have a .RAR file with the going allowances for every meeting, you unpack it with WinRaR, WinZip or the free utility 7-Zip.
Rar File:https://drive.google.com/file/d/12TLPxTnBq9S8fLJOkW0haFh8H7yN3HEj/view?usp=sharing
The above files are updated daily
Mike B
Swindon.“Have you never wondered why all the race distances are precise”
Well, not only that, French races have metric measurements.
Anyone clicked on the links yet?
I want to make sure they don’t take you to the dark web before availing myself of this generous information sharing!
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Prix Du Jockey Club – Going: “Soft,” time was 0.65 seconds FASTER than “Standard” for “1m2f110yds.”
Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Good to Soft at Saint-Cloud today, apparently.
Winning time in the big race was just the 4.15 seconds FASTER than standard.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Check out today’s times at Longchamp.
You cannot believe anything you read about French racing – the race distances, the going, the time, the standard time….none of it.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"They have finally changed the time of the 633 yesterday, originally penned in as run at 2m 10s (fast by 19) to 2m 31 (slow by 1.80)
Officially Good to Soft yet 1m 34.07s, 1.53s faster than standard and the third-fastest time EVER in the Prix Jacques le Marois won by Inspiral at Deauville today.
Those French, eh?
They’re having “un giraffe.”
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"
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