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I don’t understand this training malarkey – far too complicated and subtle for me to follow. Apparently, MM wasn’t trained to be at a peak, as that wasn’t required to win this race. By not having him so finely tuned, it increases his career longevity.
Paul Nicholls talks absolute rot sometimes look at all his contrasting comments about Denman and his comments in the past about Kauto Star. He makes comments in reaction to an event and then invariably changes his tune as time goes on. Of course Master Minded was spot on for this you don’t turn up as favourite for a championship race with a horse 90% ready unless you’ve had problems with him.
Master Minded wins but is this horse really as good as Moscow Flyer?
No he’s actually far better, the ground wasnt as much in his favour today as last year and would have been perfect for Well Chief, Briareus and Petit Robin and he still smashed them easily enough.
Moscow Flyer would get a sniff at Master Minded before the turn but that would be it IMO, the best horse in training by a mile….
Totally disagree. I will argue the toss all day about this horse I’ve decided lol.
Take away last years Queen Mother (a race that was very difficult to rate) and tell me ONE occassion where Master Minded has run to a mark in excess of 175 (which I have him at peak). You won’t find one unless you over-rate.
He’s obviously very good but Moscow Flyer would’ve beaten him IMO.
Nice to see Well Chief run a sound race. I thought Petit Robin’s performance was encouraging that being only his 4th chase start in the UK he defiantly goes better left handed on this evidence.
But, MM was just foot perfect and is truly sublime, i would just point out to the doubters he is only a 6 year old. He could have 3 Champion Chases under his belt before Moscow Flyer had won a single one. I will admint though he needs competition in this division and I don’t see it in the shape of this years Arkle runners. But, the thought that there is more to come from this horse is mind blowing, he sold my ticket for the next few festivals thats for sure!
Totally disagree. I will argue the toss all day about this horse I’ve decided lol.
Take away last years Queen Mother (a race that was very difficult to rate) and tell me ONE occassion where Master Minded has run to a mark in excess of 175 (which I have him at peak). You won’t find one unless you over-rate.
He’s obviously very good but Moscow Flyer would’ve beaten him IMO.
Watch back how Moscow Flyer comes off the trun in his champion chases and watch how Master Minded comes off the turn in his, Moscow Flyer would have no mission. 4Especially in last years Champ Chase where Master Minded had evrythign in his favour groundwise, look at how how he comes off the turn and then try to imagine moscow Flyer getting within 5 or 10 lengths of him. It’d be pretty hard.
VPU had everything up his street last season, King Stated that he was in the form of his life, he ran a cracker on the day and was destroyed by a monster on his ideal conditions. It is ridiculous to say that VPU ran a bad race, at what point did VPU not look to be travelling brilliantly. That was a performance easily into mid 180s by Master Minded, and was rated as such.
Today i would say he he’s probably run just short of 180 but has won easily nevertheless, and has come out of champion chase probably feeling like he’s just had a canter.
The horse is just that good, I generally dont ever take to horses who are always favorite, but this is a very special horse, and it will be a long time before we ever see another as good, at any distance.
Considering he was 1/3 he wasn’t in any way impressive. Suddenly it is being suggested that he has become a touch lazy. Perhaps in reality he just isn’t as good as all the hype. The comparisons some people were making with Arkle were ridiculous at the time and they look even more so now. Seeing that I wouldn’t be surprised if they were disappointed that Voy Por Ustedes didn’t take him on. On his favoured ground you would have expected him to have beaten Newmill ten lengths.
Today he has run WAY below 180. Petit Robin is a 158 horse (in my book 157 on official ratings) and he wasn’t far behind.
Master Minded achieved his 180+ rating on the basis that Voy Por Ustedes ran his race last season subsequent events have showed that he clearly didn’t IMO.
Moscow Flyer was lazy but brilliant he was beating 170 horses Azertyuiop and Well Chief not 158 horses.
Master Minded’s 186 is a totally false rating and the horse’s brilliance has been overhyped. In the last three years we’ve had Kauto, Denman then Master Minded all of whom in turn were "the best chaser for 20 years". People get carried away very easily.
As for trainers comments – Who would Nicky Henderson have said was his number 1 champion hurdle hope on Tuesday morning?
Ruby Walsh was asked what made Master Minded so good. His answer – that he could still win even when having an off day. Ruby felt the horse didn’t give his true running and is much better than that.
I agree.
He’ll win doing handstands next year.
Well Chief ( and David Pipe ) deserve praise also. Great effort.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Fantastic performance by Well Chief, the girl bringing him in was in tears, and understandably so, connections must be so proud of that performance after almost a 2 year absence.
My 1st win of the festival too! Had Well Chief to win without Master Minded in the race, at 9/2
[Today i would say he he’s probably run just short of 180 but has won easily nevertheless
Come on now Bulwark, even if you were to be given the benefit fo the doubt and we slapped the low end of that bracket (call it 177) on Master Minded for today, the race overall would be coming out thus:
Master Minded 177
Well Chief 170
Petit Robin 168
Newmill 166
Scotsirish 161
Mahogany Blaze 154The rest having run no sort of race (Briareus looked as though he was about to run to 165 or so). I doubt many people would be having that.
Mixed feelings really. Can’t honestly say I was blown away by that performance.
He did what was required and was foot perfect, but Ruby had to keep him up to the job.
No evidence to suggest he had an off-day and / or failed to give his true running. He certainly jumped and travelled well enough.
To suggest he’s open to further improvement because he’s ‘only a 6YO’ is generalising. Horses improve and peak at various stages of their career and, from what I’ve seen, there hasn’t been any substantial improvement from last year.
Moscow Flyer beat some very good performers during his era and, although this is very much open to debate, put the Well Chief from 2005 in todays race and it would have been very interesting.
A great ride from Timmy Murphy, who kept the horse out of trouble and nursed him into contention.
Not very often the performance of the runner-up attracts more attention than the winner, but Well Chief deserves the plaudits for his efforts, as does David Pipe.
I had a lump in my throat when they talked to the girl with Well Chief- was great to see him back, rolled back the years for me, did a brilliant job. Hopefully he stays sound and races again soon!
Are P Nicholls horses not quite running at their best at the moment? Ruby’s body language after the race seemed to be one of relief….it was said last week by, I think, the guy from Betfair that a few weeks ago Ladbrokes took the QM out of their ante post betting for a while and said later that it was a computer problem; however rumour was that there was a problem with Master Minded [the rest of the site didn’t have a problem]. He did say that the rumour was totally without foundation.
Well Chief has to be one of the best 2m chasers never to win a Champion Chase. My heart was pounding throughout the whole race, at the top of the hill I thought WC had a real chance but he just lost touch running down the hill. What a performance from the horse and a magnificent training feat by the Pipe team.
Are P Nicholls horses not quite running at their best at the moment? .
Hmmm, maybe there’s some truth in that What A Friend was disappointing for me in the RSA. That said Celestial Halo ran well.
Maybe they’re running well but just lacking that bit of sparkle at the moment?
My first reaction (after counting the winnings
) is to congratulate David Pipe on fantastic bit of training.Without Master Minded, Well Chief was a 2 lengths winner and if MM had not been around and people would probably be sining his praises saying he was back to his very best.
Instead the knives are out trying to cut Master Minded to pieces.
My opinion for what it’s worth is this horse is a league above anything anyone on this forum has ever seen on a racecourse.
Sorry Ian I agree with you about most things mate but I think you have a weakenss and it’s 2 mile chases
What was it you were saying about Twist Magic?Your as far of the mark with Moscow Flyer as you were with Twist Magic who once again was only out for a look at the grass and to say hello to the people. (roll on Ireland)
If you think about it logically Moscow Flyer was an 8 year old when he won the Arkle.
Master Minded is a mere 6 years of age and already he has won 2 QMCC’s
Over two miles this is the first time he’s actually been in a hardish race IMO and he’s come out of it with flying colours. He’s coped really well and put 7 lengths between himself and a very good horse.
That is one helluva distance for any horse to win by after a pace like that.
He may not have done it Arkle like but he has still won very impressively.In about 2 years time all being well Master Minded will be coming into his prime as an 8yo.
To say he hasn’t run a 180 bugs the backside of me. He beat what he had to beat and done it very very well. End of story!!!
What bugs me more is I had to double him with Binocular yesteday for next year as there’s no 6/4 this time round. Miserable gits
FFs you younger lads enjoy this horse he really is the best you are likely to see in your lifetime.
Take it from your Grandads. Old timers like "Himself", a few others and I have been critisised for saying the old horses were better. We saw Mill House Flyingbolt Dunkirk Arkle Badsworth Boy Persian War and co and here we are praising this horse above some great, great two milers. Either we are half daft or this horse is very exceptional.
Master Minded a true champion
Without Master Minded, Well Chief was a 2 lengths winner and if MM had not been around and people would probably be sining his praises saying he was back to his very best.
Sorry Aristo, but the second part of that statement in totally bogus. Had Master Minded not been in today’s race and everything else had panned out exactly the same, anyone saying Well Chief was "back to his best" would be laughed out the room, by me if no one else.
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