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Fists did you watch the race today? ? ?
Voy Por was giving massive weight away all round, and if it wasnt for him basically sitting on one of the fences down the home straight, then he would have been very close at the finish, his 4th wasnt a bad 4th.
It was a good race from him and we know that he will come on for the run.
Rose-tinted spectacles, Gaz?
It’s true that he may well have finished closer without the error, but he’s beaten by two other horses who were handicapped on form at 3m+, and a 10yo who’s 157-rating simply isn’t merited.
I thought VPU was going to be hard enough to place this season, but if the stable plan to take in the King George for his next outing, I can see him having to wait until 2009 before he has any chance of getting a win on the board. He will get absolutely devoured by Kauto Star, if he goes to Kempton.
Rose-tinted spectacles, Gaz?
It’s true that he may well have finished closer without the error, but he’s beaten by two other horses who were handicapped on form at 3m+, and a 10yo who’s 157-rating simply isn’t merited.
I thought VPU was going to be hard enough to place this season, but if the stable plan to take in the King George for his next outing, I can see him having to wait until 2009 before he has any chance of getting a win on the board. He will get absolutely devoured by Kauto Star, if he goes to Kempton.
Possibly, but he was top weight, made an error, isnt anywhere near race fit yet, but still only was beaten by 4-5 lengths.
I think he will come on plenty for the run, i will find out on Friday what the plans are with him
I was standing yards from Alan King during the race, and he was not as the French would say "un lapin content". I hope that’s a bit heat-of-the-moment, there was a fair bit to like about Voy Por’s run yesterday IMO. He was always going to struggle off 173, and finished well against some proper staying types. If you ask me he’ll most likely get the 3 miles of the King George, his problem will merely be the same as it was when he faced Kauto over 2 miles- he just isn’t in the same parish ability-wise. He’ll win the Ascot Chase I’d imagine, and will be a threat to anything in the Ryanair.
(BTW, I’m absolutely delighted to see that Exotic Dancer retains his ability. If he were mine, I’d be giving serious thought to tackling this new-look Betfair Million now.)
Friggo, "un lapin content", brilliant.
I think there were many positives to take out of the race yesterday to be honest, havent spoken to anyone about it yet, but will do later in the week when things may have been decided a little more for Voy Por.
Agree with you about Exotic Dancer, plugged on really gamely there, and like McCoy stated prior to the race yesterday, he always needs his first run.
Exotic Dancer ran an absolute blinder giving a stack of weight away to the winner. 3 miles on soft ground only Kauto Star and Denman will have his beating.
Rose-tinted spectacles, Gaz?
It’s true that he may well have finished closer without the error, but he’s beaten by two other horses who were handicapped on form at 3m+, and a 10yo who’s 157-rating simply isn’t merited.
I thought VPU was going to be hard enough to place this season, but if the stable plan to take in the King George for his next outing, I can see him having to wait until 2009 before he has any chance of getting a win on the board. He will get absolutely devoured by Kauto Star, if he goes to Kempton.
A bit harsh GH. Both Knowhere and Exotic Dancer have form over 2m 5f at Cheltenham particularly ED winning both the Paddy Power & Boylesports. And with ED being rated not too far off Kauto Star surely VPU giving it weight and being beaten a couple of lengths in ground that IMO is not as suitable to him is not too bad an effort. He did after all disappoint FTO last year getting done by the superstar that is Kalca Mome. With regard to the 10yo, I agree his rating maybe a bit high but he has won or been placed in every handicap chase he has completed gradually going up the classes in doing so.
VPU will more than likely will get devoured by KS at Kempton but for me if the ground is good or good to soft he has more of a chance than Robert Ogdens other overrated animal and if I was him, Ogden that is, I would let VPU take his chance at Kempton and send ED to the Lexus to see if he can pick up a Grade 1 in conditions that are likely to be in its favour, mind you he might have to beat The Listener in that so he might struggle there.
I didn’t think I was being too harsh, aaronizneez.
Personally, I don’t think the Old Roan form is worth much of a sook myself, and whilst I won’t be in a hurry to write VPU off entirely (King’s do seem to be less forward than usual on their first runs), I do think he will prove a very hard horse to place this season.
I simply can’t see him being able to lay a glove on Kauto Star over 3m at Kempton (stamina completely unproven anyway), and as for the Ascot Chase, I’d be expecting a fit Tidal Bay to serve it up to him in that event (and the RyanAir Chase too, for that matter, if Johnson and Wylie choose to avoid Master Minded at Cheltenham).
I confess, I’ve never been a huge fan of VPU, and have always felt that his limitations in the very top-class (an Arkle and a Champion Chase notwithstanding) have been exposed for a while. It would not really surprise me to see him fail to register a win this season, to be honest.
Never been much of a fan of VPU either, however you could say he has used to ability to the max, wouldn’t mind to have owned him myself anyway !
I would agree with you in general with regard to what yesterdays race amounts to but I was rather disappointed with Monets Garden. He seems to be very good or very bad and like VPU will be difficult to place again this year.
Admirable beast that he once was, I’m of the opinion that Monet’s Garden is a spent force at the highest level, yesterday hardening my personal view.
(BTW, I made the assumption that we don’t see Tidal Bay in the Ascot Chase. I now think he’ll go for the QM if at all possible).Fists did you watch the race today? ? ?
Voy Por was giving massive weight away all round, and if it wasnt for him basically sitting on one of the fences down the home straight, then he would have been very close at the finish, his 4th wasnt a bad 4th.
It was a good race from him and we know that he will come on for the run.
I have to apologies for having a go at our horse Gaz you must be thinking I am some sort of Alan King.Far from it I think he has done exceptionally well with both VPU and My Way De Solzen but there come a time in every horses life when they start being not quite good as they were.
VPU for me showed signs last year that he just wasn’t up to scratch. He just lacks that something special that separates good horses fron great ones.
For a QMCC winner his season was very disapointing. Aintree apart he never quite getting his head in front when it mattered.
I look at Aintree as nothing more than a walk over and think any good horse who stayed the trip and ran to his bes form would have beat MM that day.
Sure he’s a nice horse but amny regard his QMCC as one of the worst in it’s history. The fact he was on an inflated rating resulted in MM being rated the best Chaser in the British Isle which is of course sheer and utter rubbish.
We all want to see great Champions and time after time we end up disappointed. I have a feeiling and it’s only a feeling that VPU is guilty of making Mastr Minded much better looking than he actually is.
That is why I am so keen to see Tidal Bay take him on. I think he is avery special horse and if comes down to a fight he will beat Master MInded.
I had a huge bet on Master Minded last season and have bet him again this but the more I think about it the more I think we are all taking ourselves on some sort of setimental ride in the hope he is a wonder horse
I may be nuts but I think at sometime the Tidal Bay V Master Minded battle will take place and the former will come out on top……..what then? love to see how they rate him if he does beat him
Of course I could be wrong and if VPU proves that then so be it. Right now I am not convinced that VPU is anything more than a good horse who was in the right place at the right time. I suspect he is on the downgrade and he will struggle to win anything decent this season.
Do you not think that MM may frighten off some of the major competitors in th QMCC and therefore the Ryanair could turn into a very hot event.
Yes and yes.
I can see Nicholls entering all of Master Minded, Takeroc and Twist Magic in the QMCC to account for every possible eventuality of going type and mistakes. Mark Howard has Silverburn down as a QMCC aspirant as well, though I think a lobotomy, rather than a return to the minimum, is required before I lump in on that creature too often.
Big Zeb has been touted as the main Irish challenger in some quarters, but his win over 2m on good at Punchestown last Spring, in a race where two of his main market rivals slit each other’s throats and paid accordingly, looks shaky form to me – much more is required.
gc
Normally I would not touch a horse ante-post at shorter than 5/1 this time of year. Am I crazy or something but I am thinking about backing Master Minded even at current prices? Can see MM starting 4/1on if as expected his main rivals defect. He could be 30lbs clear top rated on the day. Likely to be taken on by just the ones gc mentions above.
Will the poor, uncompetitive field be a consequence of the upgraded Ryanair? Too many options for a top class chaser?
Mark
Value Is Everything
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Master Minded’s only serious rival over two miles this season will be Tidal Bay and, as I have said, I don’t think even he can touch him (experience, age and relative achievement are all in the favour of the first-named). The two are due to meet in the Tingle Creek in December, a race which looks like being a huge marker for Cheltenham. If, as I suspect, the Nicholls horse wins easily, then I can’t see Howard Johnson insisting on another crack at him at the Festival.
Then again, the Ryanair is likely to see him face off against Saturday’s impressive winner, Noland.
Even money about Master Minded is an absolute steal, even accounting for the inherent risk factor in ante-post betting.
I could not see Master Minded losing in last seasons QMCC and Iimmediately backed him for 2009 after he won it. I agree with Ginge he could start as short as 1/4. As I said before though I am not as confident now as I was then. Tidal Bay for me is a cracking horse and he will be the first top class horse Master Minded has met if they clash in the TC IMO.
I was reading that PN says he has improved loads. I suppose it could be scare tactics aimed at Howard Johnson or it could be he has.
If Tiday Bay doesn’t take him on in the Tingle Creek then I simply can’t see anything else that will get within 10 lengths of him at Chelteham.
Damn shame really and I hope HJ goes for it.
If Tidal Bay does take him on, puts in a clear round and Master Minded wins hands down, then and only then will I be convinced he is some sort of wonder horse.
I am just not sure he is everything the handicapper says he is due to the poor opposition he has faced so far.
No direspect to VPU but I personally never rated him very highly.
As expected, Tidal Bay made his seasonal debut over 2m 4f.
It didn’t tell us anything new about him. He won over 2m 5f at Cheltenham last season and the Ryanair looks his most likely target.
Connections have always said that options will remain open this season regarding trip. He showed plenty of speed to win in decent company at Cheltenham and Aintree last season, where he was one of only two horses to complete a festival double.
He hasn’t been stopping at the end of his races over further and there’s no reason to believe he won’t stay three miles, especially at Kempton, where his speed could be a potent weapon.
He faces a stiff task against Master Minded at Sandown. The two mile champion chaser goes well fresh, negotiated the course last season and obviously has plenty of improvement to come.
It will be a firm test for Tidal Bay against a genuine top class performer over the minimum trip, around a course that puts the emphasis on rhythm and jumping at speed. I don’t think the course will suit him like Aintree and Cheltenham, but he’s got nothing to lose.
If he gets well beat, there’s always the option of stepping him up to three miles, where the King George will be an obvious target. Win or lose, I expect the horse will go to Kempton.
Tidal Bay vs Kauto Star. What a race that could be! Kauto Star is the most talented National Hunt horse I’ve seen, but Tidal Bay has the ability to beat him. I’m in no doubt about that. He would beat Kauto over two miles. He travels like a horse who would be suited by Kempton and he does possess a turn of foot. If he took his chance in the race, Kauto wouldn’t saunter to another twelve length victory.
If he gets well beat by KS, then he’ll more than likely go for Howard Johnson’s preferred target, the Ryanair. He’ll be a pretty warm favourite for the race and I haven’t seen a horse, except Kauto, who could compete with him at Cheltenham, over 2m 5f.
Of course, if he competes with the likes of Master Minded and Kauto Star options remain very much open. Cheltenham suits this horse very well and it’s quite possible that any required improvement could come around that course. Howard Johnson has tremendous belief in him and he wouldn’t be scared of tackling any of the big guns.
Who knows, after tackling Master Minded in the Tingle Creek, Kauto Star in the King George, we could see him take on Denman at Aintree.
Make no mistake, this is a very, very talented horse who has plenty more to offer. We haven’t seen the best of him. He’s a very tough horse who probably doesn’t realise just how good he is. Mentally, there’s plenty of improvement still to come.
Tidal Bay still has a mountain to climb to beat a top form Master Minded, will have to improve an enormous amount to get anywhere near him. Yes TB should make a top class racehorse but MM is more than top class. By Timeform ratings, since 1980 only Badsworth Boy, Desert Orchid, Moscow Flyer, Azertyuiop, Well Chief and Kauto Star have been as good. Indeed, if he remains sound (after the Aintree run) there is every chance this 5yo will improve in to the best ever two mile chaser.
Being so young there is even a small chance he might turn in to the best horse since Arkle.
Mark
Value Is EverythingHE certainly game me that impression the way he came of the bend in the QMCC but horses can be made to look better than they actually are if the oposition is weak.
I’m not arguing with you Ginge but I would like to see him and Tidal Bay clash before being so positive about him.
His rating is so high because VPU was way too highly rated and left the handicapper no choice IMO
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