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The QE2 will be decided by the ability of the contenders, as well as ability to handle to conditions on the day (& draw, and race strategy, and jockeyship); same as every race thus far this year. If Henrythenavigator is not adaptable as Tamayuz conditions wise, I would say this detracts from Henrythenavigator as a horse and adds to Tamayuz, wouldn’t you?
I agree but it is worth pointing out Tamayuz has not raced on anything faster than good ground so your comments about HTN may well apply to Tamayuz if he doesn’t handle GF ground. Having said that his sire handled fast ground though his dam never raced on it.
Exactly, and if he is to be Champion Miler by winning the QE2, then he’ll have to show he’s adaptable ground-wise if the conditions are new to him.
Two Classic wins and beat the Derby winner amongst others in both.So he does not like a heavy, and the Derby winner does not like a firm surface.Neither are perfect all-surface horses. But who is?The Duke of Marmalade maybe.But he was pulled out of the Leopardstown race because of the heavy going.So where do we go from here? When did failing to act on heavy going distract from a horse? Except in NH races.
cannot believe this. You questioned whether I watched the race in my posts. Then you have to humbly rewatch the race when other posters expose your lack of understanding of the way in which the race panned out. Ignorance in the extreme. Stick to the lounge mate, or Betfair, you can embarrass yourself less there.
From someone who stated that the race in question was run at Deauville
I made my points clear and am not interested in your opinion
May i also suggest that you follow up my insistence that i received no more of your repeated green ink private messages (which i did not reply to) by not responding to my posts in any way.
Raven’s? I consider him a little bit inferior to those two, he’s always very close but fails to find the final sparking gear against them
A lot is going to depend how the main contenders are in themselves having been competing since the early spring.
This is not the worst race in the world for paddock inspection. Well recall milligram beating miseque many years ago when she looked fantastic pre race but (if i recall) was not one you would call on the formbook
Salselon I believe The Duke of M. was withdrawn because of the going at Leopardstown..
But also said somehwere that he hadnt galloped well the week before. How true, ive no idea…but maybe
Two Classic wins and beat the Derby winner amongst others in both.So he does not like a heavy, and the Derby winner does not like a firm surface.Neither are perfect all-surface horses. But who is?The Duke of Marmalade maybe.But he was pulled out of the Leopardstown race because of the heavy going.So where do we go from here? When did failing to act on heavy going distract from a horse? Except in NH races.
I think we are talking about soft or good to soft ground as opposed to heavy though the best horses handle any ground. Failing to handle soft or good to soft or good to firm ground doesn’t distract from what a horse has achieved but as you say it does mean the horse has ground limitations such as HTN. NA has won on good to firm so in that respect is more versatile than HTN but palpably not as good over a mile on good to firm. So far we don’t know if Tamayuz handles good to firm.
As for DOM he has proved he goes on soft ground but perhaps it was close to heavy at Leopardstown so AOB didn’t want him to have a hard race especially as he appears bound for a dirt race in the Breeders Cup.
Henry is by Kingmambo and generally IMO if you were getting one sired by Kingmambo (like most mr prospectors) you would be looking at something for the better side of good or even dirt. And the same would apply to Henry. The Mr Prospectors are largely best on good-firm and they have never stopped being popular, especially as there are so many races on gd-fm on the flat. I realise that Kingmambo has knocked up the likes of Rule Of Law and Detroit City who revelled in the mud but then hes knocked up plenty who didnt like it, henry being just one. Henry will no doubt be popular as a sire, like so many before him.
IMO the best horse is not necessarily the one who wins on the day but the one who with conditions right is the best. IMO on gd-fm Henry is a much better horse than Tamayuz is on his optimal conditions but henry is nowhere near his best with cut underfoot and so to measure him upon defeat on unsuitable conditions is unfair, and would make for false ratings and false form.
IMO the best horse is not necessarily the one who wins on the day but the one who with conditions right is the best. IMO on gd-fm Henry is a much better horse than Tamayuz is on his optimal conditions but henry is nowhere near his best with cut underfoot and so to measure him upon defeat on unsuitable conditions is unfair, and would make for false ratings and false form.
I would have thought the best horse is the one who wins on all surfaces, i.e can win on their less favoured surface. I don’t see how you can say HTN is much better than Tamayuz when both have their optimal conditions. Firstly the only clear form line is through Raven’s Pass which says the opposite and secondly we don’t know if Tamayuz handles good to firm so you can’t say for sure what his optimal surface is.
So how do you think HTN will go on the polytrack in the breeders cup mile? Surely he would be in his element here?
IMO the best horse is not necessarily the one who wins on the day but the one who with conditions right is the best.
Salse – I think this was what I was trying to say. And look, I don’t really like that it ends up as being the best horse under the conditions, not under his own ability.
Now that’s an opinion, just mine – so it’s neither right nor wrong.
May not happen – but I don’t want a good-to-soft track and Henrythenavigator off his game because of it OR not running!
I would have thought the best horse is the one who wins on all surfaces, i.e can win on their less favoured surface. I don’t see how you can say HTN is much better than Tamayuz when both have their optimal conditions. Firstly the only clear form line is through Raven’s Pass which says the opposite and secondly we don’t know if Tamayuz handles good to firm so you can’t say for sure what his optimal surface is.
Not really, because what are ravens pass’s ideal conditions, beating ravens on gd-fm is a greater achievement than beating him on any worse surface, because Ravens Pass (like henry) is a top of the ground horse. To say that the best horse wins on any ground regardless, underestimates how good other horses are on ground which may not be optimal for one horse.
I’d agree with the Bridagier on this, and personally i always prefer the horses who are not so ground dependant when there is a doubt.
Andy – The Breeders Mile is a turf race.
Not really, because what are ravens pass’s ideal conditions, beating ravens on gd-fm is a greater achievement than beating him on any worse surface, because Ravens Pass (like henry) is a top of the ground horse. To say that the best horse wins on any ground regardless, underestimates how good other horses are on ground which may not be optimal for one horse.
Well I guess the QE2 will tell us which one is better.
I am not underestimating how good HTN is on good to firm, he is outstanding, I am just saying he doesn’t handle good to soft which means he is not as good as a horse that can win on all surfaces. If you want an example of such a horse my username provides it, he would imo have beaten HTN on any ground.
I’d agree with the Bridagier on this, and personally i always prefer the horses who are not so ground dependant when there is a doubt.
Andy – The Breeders Mile is a turf race.
Really? I thought it was on the same surface as the Classic. Well there you go! Still, nice weather over there should make it an ideal surface for HTN either way you would hope.
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