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Yeah but I take Ornais and put forward Surface to Air. A great run after a long time off and injury.
- Total Posts 17716
This is not an answer, but a personal expression of sadness.
I’ve seen every Grand National, one way or another, since
Merryman II
‘s year in 1960, and I dimly remember listening to the radio broadcast of
Oxo
‘s 1958 victory, perched on my Grannie’s lap. This year’s race was the first of those 53 which I haven’t enjoyed. Even a McCain winner didn’t help.
Three reasons:
(1)
The deaths. The tarpaulin over
Ornais
was made a major and sickening feature of the TV coverage.
(2)
The prominence of the fatalities was highlighted in a pornographic way by having the field bypassing those fences where the stricken animals lay. If the race is to survive in a meaningful way, this diversionary tactic
must
be rethought.
(3)
The awful sight of every jockey dismounting from distressed and dehydrated horses at the end. The spectacle of Jason Maguire entering the winner’s enclosure alone to the sound of a rock beat was bizarre and disgusting.
Ideas?
(A)
The race needs to return to a late March date. Sod Cheltenham, which has already sucked too much lifeblood out of the sport as it is.
(B)
The fences might need to be raised back to former levels, or made less inviting, to make jumping them on fast ground safer.
(C)
The BBC should lose terrestrial coverage forthwith. In fact, maybe there should be no live terrestrial coverage at all. Anyone who wishes to see the race can watch it live in a variety of other ways.
(D)
Animal Aid should be prosecuted for incitement to Breach of the Peace, under the Public Order Act. The calculated way in which these people use the race to further their own agenda is the most sickening thing of all.
If something is not done to counter these evil people effectively, then goodbye to the National – and NH Racing in this country will not last another 53 years.
What an excellent post, Pinza. I agree with most it.
I know that for the reason of giving novices enough experience, the major festivals must be in the latter third of the season. Nevertheless, some rescheduling for Grand National safety could also alleviate the issue of Cheltenham and Aintree being crammed in so close together to the detriment of the rest of the season. I find it strange that the major ‘Festival Trials’ are usually run in totally different conditions to the Festivals themselves, rendering them quite irrelevant!
A month/two month gap between Cheltenham and Aintree would also give us more of what we want: top class horses running at their best in top class races. The sight of old Denman staggering around Aintree on Thursday was one of the saddest things this week.
The BBC should lose terrestrial coverage forthwith
Come on Pinza you have to be joking surely.
As I’ve mentioned earlier, the people I’ve spoken to seem to be accepting of the fact that racing is dangerous and that there will be casualties. Not saying they like the fact, just that they accept it.
Pinza – Agree totally. What made this years fatalities stand out (as I mentioned – they are the first National deaths due to falling at a fence since 2003) is that they were highlighted by terrible work by the BBC camera/production team, and bypassing the fences.
Therefore the danger here is that mass modification to the race will occur due to the public’s perception that the race was worse than ever. This was the case in 1987 when Dark Ivy, a stand out white horse and the only one in the race, died at Bechers in the worst way possible and then in 1989 Julian Wilson calling "they are being diverted to the inside due to a dead horse". What followed was the mass changes – rightly so to Becher’s, but wrongly to the height of the normal fences.
A brief message to Doublethetrouble. I refer to your comment to Ricky Lake.
I thought that this forum was about intelligent debate and exchange of views . For that to occur we have to respect every ones opinions , whether you like them or not my friend.
If you wish to adopt a totalitarian attitude that everyone who disagrees with you should leave the forum, then I think that you should go forthwith.
This is a very emotive subject – I understand that, but intolerance is simply not acceptable.- Total Posts 17716
The BBC should lose terrestrial coverage forthwith
Come on Pinza you have to be joking surely.
Absolutely not. The main impact of the BBC coverage, year on year out, has been to increase the effectiveness of Animal Aid’s campaign to get the race (and NH Racing altogether) banned. Today’s tabloid attack on the race will have a huge impact on public opinion, when so many people will have casually seen, and been sickened by, the tarpaulins and what lay underneath them.
The sooner free-to-air coverage of the race stops, the better. The Grand National managed perfectly well without BBC TV for well over a hundred years. It can, and should, manage again.
We live in a time and place, Corm, where free-to-air terrestrial coverage for almost every major sporting event will soon be a thing of the past. The younger generation find TV a bore and a literal turn off (just look at the figures and age breakdowns). And anyone who cares sufficiently can put their money down to see as much of their chosen sport as they care to.
Racing UK’s coverage of the Aintree Festival was infinitely better (as far as horse racing fans and punters were concerned) than the fancy camera work, poor analysis and celebrity interviews offered by BBC.
Racing UK’s coverage of the Aintree Festival was infinitely better (as far as horse racing fans and punters were concerned) than the fancy camera work, poor analysis and celebrity interviews offered by BBC.
Couldn’t agree more. The choice of Machin, Hoiles & Hunt to share the National commentary was inspired, they did a superb job.
Only downside was having to share the day with Bangor & Thirsk, but that’s been debated elsewhere, so won’t go into that now.
I hope it gets less popular it does seem bizarre that in a limited pool of chasers 10+ good ones are held back jumping over hurdles and running down the field for this 1 race.
Yeah, I do find the blatant practice of taking Aintree winners and under-campaigning them in hurdles all year with a view to ‘getting a mark’ rather disconcerting. It borders on …. nah, I won’t say it for fear of upsetting someone
[cough]PU-12-07-10[/cough]
- Total Posts 17716
As is the same with every National we get overblown nonesense on how us National Hunt boys have no feelings for the horses and care only about money and the spectacle. It really does get tiring.
The National is a perfectly safe race and has always put safety first. Yesterday was very unfortunate, but these things happen. The fences had nothing to do with it. This could have happened anywhere and news flash it will happen again everywhere.
It’s not like you flatsies are totally innocent either. I’d rather watch the National every day than watch horses forced into stalls and watching them panicking like scared children while they’re inside what can only be described as anti-spacious cells.
Jump racing is fine the way it is. It does not need ANY rethinking or remodeling. These things happen and that’s just the way it is. Don’t like it? Turn the channel and watch some curling.
‘The National is a perfectly safe race and always puts safety first’ YOU IDIOT!
Since 2000, the Grand National has been run eight times on officially good ground, three times on good to soft and once on heavy. Here is my analysis regarding the average number of finishers and fallers in relation to the ground:
Good ground – Finishers 14.1 Fallers 10.6
G / S ground — Finishers 15.6 Fallers 9Of the deaths resulting from falls – The Last Fling, Manx Magic, Tyneandtyneagain, Dooney’s Gate and Ornais – four were on good ground, one on good to soft.
I have also researched the number of fallers in relation to the fence since the turn of the century:
One hundred and twenty horses have fallen during the last twelve renewals (an average of 10 per race), resulting in five ‘fall related’ deaths (one every 2.4 years).
The first six fences on the first circuit are responsible for 53% of the falls (63/120). Becher’s Brook has claimed the most fallers with twenty-seven, whilst the first fence on the first circuit has claimed twenty-three – that’s nearly 42% of all fallers between them.
It should be noted that no horse in the last twelve renewals has fallen at the first fence on the second circuit, but more have fallen at Becher’s Brook on the second circuit compared to the first (11 on the first, 16 on the second). Tyneandtyneagain lost his life at the first, whilst Becher’s claimed Dooney’s Gate.
The fourth fence – also the twentieth on the second circuit – boasts a surprisingly high amount of casualties and is third on the list with a combined total of seventeen. It claimed the life of Manx Magic, and Ornais was fatally injured at this fence yesterday. After winning the race and finishing third twice, Corbiere fell at this obstacle. It was also responsible for ruining Neale Doughty’s perfect record, and yesterday the usually reliable Calgary Bay exited at this fence.
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In my opinion, there is no relation between the numbers of casualties and the going.
Clearly, Becher’s is still something of a problem. It boasts the highest number of fallers and has resulted in the death of one horse since the turn of the century. I initially found it quite surprising that more runners fall at this obstacle second time around. At this point of the contest there is less conjestion, so perhaps the reason is the difficulty of the fence in relation to fatigue. Becher’s, whilst only 4′ 10" high, has a landing of 6′ 9". It must be harder for horses to pick themselves up after already jumping twenty-one obstacles and covering more than half the race at this stage of the contest.
The glaring statistic is that 53% of all casualties fall over the first six fences, with the first fence resulting in 23 of the 120 casualties. Clearly, the obstacle is not a problem because no horse has fallen at this fence on the second circuit since the turn of the century.
The run to the first fence and obvious conjestion is therefore a reasonable suggestion for this statistic.
The Chair is considered the most fearful obstacle by many, but only three have exited at this stage of the race since 2000. It has often been suggested that the narrow approach to this fence is a negative. On the contrary, this places the emphasis on position and technique, rather than encourage speed.
——————————————————————
In my opinion, there are three ways to improve the safety of the Grand National without compromising it as a spectacle:
1) Reduce the number of participants to 32, with greater emphasis on quality
2) Reduce the distance of the approach to the first fence
3) Becher’s Brook to be jumped only once.Thanks for doing the ground work on that Bosarnic. I had suspected that the majority of the fallers in the National were in the early part of the race and was about to embark on some analysis to see if this was indeed true.
I think the reasons for this are obvious…. the cavalry charge. Too many horses going way too damn fast. It’s a 4m4f race for godsakes. You don’t see the field go out that fast in a 3m chase, why would you do it in race a mile and half longer? I’m sure the answer is jockeying for position, brought on by the size of the field. You can’t legislate pace. But you can cut the size of the field.Really when you think about it, for a race with such a humongous purse, it attracts a very mediocre field. I know this will make most of you run for the vapors, but it wouldn’t bother me it the race was no longer a handicap, or a modified handicap of a select 20 or 25 runners. Go for quality over quantity. I know that would effectively change the very nature of the race.
Whoever decided to bypass the fences on the National course has made an almighty blunder, talk about shooting yourselves in the foot. What will they do if the same thing happens next year or the year after? What if they have to miss 5 or 6 fences for various reasons, the race will be a farce.
We will all be on tenterhooks waiting to see if any fences have been bypassed in the National, if they have, everyone will know why and it will all be over the front pages about the "carnage" allowed to happen again.I’m already feeling apprehensive about next year.
Although it wont look good in the short term the decision to bypass the fences should be reversed as soon as possible.
Don’t go along with changing the date of the National based on one running, shall we also run the Scottish National and Whitbread mid March?
Although their coverage is rubbish wouldn’t particularly blame the BBC for much, although they didn’t have the overhead shot it still looked bad on RUK.Eddie,
You’d rather see horses jump a fence knowing there is another horse laying dead or suffering on the other side? Risk of horse landing on horse / jockey. There’d be even more uproar.
When Brown Trix fell back in to Bechers in the Eighties, people tried to pull the stricken horse out of the way for the next circuit. It looked a lot worse than diverting around a fence.Value Is EverythingThanks for doing the ground work on that Bosarnic. I had suspected that the majority of the fallers in the National were in the early part of the race and was about to embark on some analysis to see if this was indeed true.
I think the reasons for this are obvious…. the cavalry charge. Too many horses going way too damn fast. It’s a 4m4f race for godsakes. You don’t see the field go out that fast in a 3m chase, why would you do it in race a mile and half longer? I’m sure the answer is jockeying for position, brought on by the size of the field. You can’t legislate pace. But you can cut the size of the field.Really when you think about it, for a race with such a humongous purse, it attracts a very mediocre field. I know this will make most of you run for the vapors, but it wouldn’t bother me it the race was no longer a handicap, or a modified handicap of a select 20 or 25 runners. Go for quality over quantity. I know that would effectively change the very nature of the race.
If you think that Vintner, then you have not studied the race.
Very very few these days win after being in the last half of the field, going over the third fence. This year only State Of Play came from well back. Ballabriggs was in the first 3 all the way, so was Niche Market, Oscar time was in the first 7 all the way, Don’t Push it was in the first half. And that is in the second fastest race of all time. Fast run races should favour those coming from the back, the National does not.
Year in year out, to win the Grand National you need to race fairly prominently.I do agree on the point about reducing field sizes though.
Value Is EverythingThe Becher Chase would seem to provide a demonstration of whether a smaller field and softer ground would reduce the percentage of fallers.
But the evidence doesn’t really support the theory, as the last ten running have had an average field of 15.6, and the average number of fallers is 6.3. Slightly better than the National, but there are eight fewer fences to be jumped in the Becher.
And any recent changes haven’t helped either as the highest percentage of fallers was this season, with 10/17 failing to complete.
AP
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