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There would be no problem making it safer for horses if they accepted that NH is a WINTER sport and run it as such.
NH cannot compete with Royal Ascot and Goodwood and neither should it try to. Not that summer jumps dross does compete, but it would be interesting to know the amount of NH fatalities, P2P included, between and inc. April and September as a % of the total?A pedantic point really to Mike Brough –
In the 60’s/70s the average grand prix driver faced significantly worse odds and still queued up to drive. Between 1963 and 1973 if a driver raced for five years or more he was more likely to lose his life than to survive and retire.
And, so, they made motor racing safer. What are they doing to make chasing safer?
And, to be pedantic about your pedantry
, there were 9 grand prix fatalities in the 70s and 10 in the 60s. In the 11 years between 1963 and 1973, there were 9 fatalities from 122 grand prix races with around 3200 starters. So 9 deaths is a rate of 0.28%. So, a driver competing in 50 races (over 5 years) had an 87% chance of still being alive at the end.
</pedantry>I was at yesterdays national, and well done to aintree for selling out, and managing the crowds so well.
With regards to the national, well, first and foremost i am a horse person, not a racing/betting person, and i think an awful lot of people need to take a long hard look at themselves. The BBC’s coverage, from what I’ve heard was pretty dire, and won’t do the sport any good, Channel 4 are not perfect, but at least they are competent, as shown by their newbury coverage – no need to repeat the incident as many times as they did, but they dealt with it well o the whole.
Aside from the coverage, there are the more obvious issues, I think people need to stop being so sentimental about how the fences aren’t what they once were, Beechers has been modified many times, but might need it again, they did it with the Hickstead bank, and it hasn’t detracted from the event at all. At the same time there has to be a way of not letting piss poor jumpers into the race, what were horses like Grand Slam Hero, who repeatedly jump badly doing in it, surely trainers realise that that is asking for a serious injury to horse or rider, and I’m just glad both walked away ok.
The national to me is just further proof the entire NH season needs total resheduling. horses tend to go to EITHER Aintree OR Cheltenham, so there is no need for Aintree to be when it is – shove it in Feburary, move races that tend to get called off, which are not 3 miles long to April, Cheltenham can still try and cling on to st paddys day, and you’re not hammering horses into the ground over 4 miles in 20 degree heat. It’s just daft, not to mention that loads of the Irish entries hadn’t seen good ground since 2008ish it’s not a form thing, but it’s going to have changed the way they run and everything.
It IS a great race, as last years running proved, and i had a wonderful few days, but there needs to be some pretty serious changes made if we’re going to keep it, and not destroy the hard work a lot of people have put in to improve the reputation of racing in general.
I’m very surprised at some of the comments on this thread.
How can anyone defend an event that had a widespread media build-up the week before, hours of build-up on the BBC beforehand, and half way through has a dead horse covered with a blanket. Then the winner is close to collapse. Then the jockey is punished for cheating, but keeps the race.
What a sad spectacle, what a pathetic sporting event.
I like NH racing in general, but this particular race is surely past its time and needs to be dropped before it drags down the rest of the sport.
Participants in bear-baiting probably didn’t think it was cruel at the time, or maybe they decided the risks were "acceptable". You have to step back and see how the rest of the world views things.
Interesting to see some level of support for the idea of moving the race earlier in the year.
The "moving feast" of Easter and the desperate desire to keep three weeks between Aintree and Cheltenham COULD be made to work in reverse with a late February Aintree Festival as a step toward Cheltenham.
Weather might still be a risk but with the coming of frost sheets and appropriate time and effort, it should be possible to run the meeting at the third or fourth weekend of February which would put it three weeks or so after the Cheltenham Trials meeting and six weeks after the King George.
Nothing insurmountable for trainers and horses there and a fixed point in the calendar in perpetuity. Fairyhouse and Punchestown remain as would the mid-April Cheltenham, final Ascot meeting and of course the BetFred meeting at Esher.
Your pattern "triple crown" is therefore right-handed sharp at Kempton over Christmas followed by left-handed sharp (plus National) in mid-Feb followed by the climax of the season at Cheltenham in mid-March with the option of a "final weekend" at Sandown in mid-April.
The issue of Easter will always cause problems but I think we can take Aintree and the National out of the equation.
I can’t believe there are horse racing fans on THIS SITE calling for the race to be dumped due to fatalities and dragging down the rest of the sport!!! I think 33 deaths at the Aintree festival is on a par with Cheltenham’s record. So do we dump the blue ribband festival too? Oh and whilst we’re at it they normally have some deaths in the Irish National – get rid of that. And the races in Jan and Feb have a pretty poor fatality record. Hell lets just run from October to December. King George can be the curtain call. Ah sod it lets just end the sport. Where shall we send the horses?
The non-racing people I’ve spoken to on this seem to accept that racing is dangerous and that injuries and horse fatalaties are part of the sport.
I do agree that making the fences ‘easier’ has probably been counter-productive, they do seem to jump them faster these days, although that view is only based on my perception, I haven’t any evidence to support it so could be totally wrong.
We recently had a staying race at Newcastle run on ‘winter’ ground with the same outcome of exhausted horses/jockeys dismounting, etc, so I’m not at all sure that moving the National to an earlier date would help at all in that regard.
You’re right Cormack15, they are going to finish very tired in any staying chase no matter of the ground. I think heat accelerates this, though.
The race doesn’t just test racing and jumping ability in a horse in weather like this. It tests the horse’s endurance to dehydration. Isn’t that akin to…torture?
And, so, they made motor racing safer. What are they doing to make chasing safer?
Are you serious Mike?
The Grand National is nothing like what it was just 25 years ago. I said after the 1987 Grand National and the fall of Brown Trix at Bechers, I’d never bet in the race again if it was not changed. It was.
They’ve changed the fences massively over the years, once used to be totally vertical on take off side and much higher.
Only a couple of years ago run off areas were put in, to enable runners to go around the fences, like they did twice yesterday. Imagine them trying to jump Bechers either side of Dooney’s Gate or Ornais!They are rightly, constantly looking at safety improvements.
Value Is EverythingWe recently had a staying race at Newcastle run on ‘winter’ ground with the same outcome of exhausted horses/jockeys dismounting, etc, so I’m not at all sure that moving the National to an earlier date would help at all in that regard.
I was one that criticised them running the Eider on not just heavy, but bottomless ground. Unlikely at Aintree in late March, but if it is like that, postpone it.
Aintree did not water enough, may be it is difficult and an inexact science, but after the Topham time, they should’ve known roughly how much they needed.
Don’t run the National on a firmish surface, don’t run it on bottomless, aim for going on the soft side of good. Don’t take any notice of what the trainers or jockeys say, once a meeting has started just go on times.Value Is EverythingThe bottom is from my blog. I really think that we/BBC go down a silly path over sentimentalising the deaths. They are going to happen. The spectacle of bypassing fences with dead horses was not good but I still found it thrilling at the finish.
If less people want to watch the National and Clare Balding has moral qualms then so be it – I would not weep for the race personally. However The National is not something jump racing can just stop – the levy dear boy the levy!
The fences are now fair and as mentioned making them even softer will not help. It is what it is.
I hope it gets less popular it does seem bizarre that in a limited pool of chasers 10+ good ones are held back jumping over hurdles and running down the field for this 1 race.
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The truth is horses race.
They race over jumps.
They sometimes die from injuries sustained running over jumps.
There is no solution to this.
It’s neither cruel nor unusual.
It’s not moral or immoral.
If the spectacle is that objectionable then the people will not watch and the race will end.
RICKY LAKE
why on earth did you watch it for if you are so against it ,we alway’s seem some that want to stop it,time for you to find another forum,and leave us to our sport.bye bye then!
Here we go – The sad list of death. The only reason I’m posting it is to show the increase in modern day deaths since the animal brigade for the fences lowered.
Dictator in 1839. 1845:Clansman, 1848:Counsellor, The Sailor and Blue Pill, 1849:Kilfane, The Curate and Equinox, 1854:Bedford, 1855:Miss Mowbray, 1856:Banstead, 1861:The Conductor, 1863:Telegraph, 1868:Chimney Sweep, 1871:Lord Raglan, 1872:Primrose and Nuage, 1875:Laburnam, 1882:Wild Monarch, 1888:Usna, 1891:Emperor, 1894:Carrollstown, 1901:True Blue, 1907:Kilts, 1922:Awbeg and The Inca, 1923:Masterful, 1926:Lone Hand, 1929:Stort, 1930:Derby Day, 1931:Drin and Swift Roland, 1936:Avenger, 1946:Symbole, 1947:Lindhill, 1949:Bora’s Cottage, 1950:Royal Mount, 1952:Skouras, 1953:Cardinal Error and Parasol II, 1954:Dominick’s Bar, Paris New York, Coneyburrow and Legal Joy, 1959:Henry Purcell, 1960:Belsize II, 1963:Avenue Neuilly, 1967:Vulcano, 1968:Champion Prince, 1970:Racoon, 1973:Grey Sombrero, 1975:Land Lark and Beau Bob, 1977:Winter Rain and Zeta’s Son, 1978:Rag Trade, 1979:Kintai and Alverton, 1983:Duncreggan, 1984:Earthstopper, 1987:Dark Ivy, 1989:Seeandem and Brown Trix, 1990:Roll A Joint and Hungry Hur, 1991:Ballyhane, 1996:Rust Never Sleeps, 1997:Straight Talk and Smith’s Band, 1998:Pashto, Do Rightly and Griffin’s Bar, 1999:Eudipe, 2002:The Last Fling and Manx Magic, 2003:Goguenard, 2006:Tyneandthyneagain, 2007:Graphic Approach, 2008:McKelvey, 2009:Hear The Echo
63 deaths in the years of the "barbaric" higher upright fences – 1839 to 1990 (with the majority being caused by Becher’s, The Chair and the Canal Turn…1 death every 2.3 years.
Then since the fences were lowered – 19 fatalities 1990 to 2011. 1 death every 1.15.
Death toll has doubled.
Its the ground, the lower fences, and the speed of the race.
Run it on Soft, Good to soft. Raise the normal fence height, job done.
You could argue Becher’s is more dangerous since they lowered the fence heights too. They should have kept it the same height but removed much of the drop and the risk of rolling into the ditch. Right now there is a bit of a drop but with a flat landing side and a low height meaning horses jump it like any other fence (like a hurdle) so if they misjudge that – BANG. If it was higher, they may well fall on the landing side by crumpling, but they are less likely to break necks/backs.
Actually looking at that list brings the current uproar into context. These 2 deaths yesterday were the first deaths caused directly by a horse falling in the Grand National since Goguenard in 2003 (and even that was due to a loose horse).
Tyneandtyneagain was running loose when a horse jumped onto his back – freak accident. Graphic Approach was running loose in hot conditions – heat exhaustion caused it. McKelvey sadly ran loose into a rail. Hear the Echo collapsed.
So in fact, you could say that the course IS very safe. The accidents yesterday were rare. And that the biggest issue of concern is the temperature on the day causing exhausted horses. Run the race late March. Job done.
Advocates of a much earlier date for the race should remember the sort of winter we had, the many abandonments and aspects like lack of grass growth experienced at doncaster week.
The turf looked in fine fettle and we diodn`t have the deaths from leg injuries like the poor horse on the flat at Thirsk and a sad demise of a genuine chaser at Chepstow through breaking down.I`m not sure what happened on the watering policy – thought that was going to happen Friday night.I noticed weather forecasters` predicted temperature were well below what most of us have experienced over the last few days. The faster ground is never a help although I remember 3 fatalities over the first five fences on softish ground in 1998.
Whether Aintree is getting everything right is one thing. The fact that holes can be picked in almost everything suggested on here including my own only serves to show how difficult it is to organise things that are weather dependent.
I think the entries qualifications have to be looked at again.We have had the situation of horses that are never campaigned as staying chasers being influential in pace setting. I recall Glenelly Gale, Conna Castle and yesterday, Santa`s Son all putting in bold efforts, admirable in one sense, but without any thought of being in contention in the last mile. Mr Smith ought to be handicapping on the basis of 3 mile plus form. If there isn`t any, the horse should only be considered on a repechage basis, lower in the pecking order than something on 6 stone.
Poor Ornais`s return to the track has been in hunter chases and I don`t think that is acceptable after a couple of years off.
A return to the track in this race after 520 days was on the cards for Our Monty.A lesser trainer than Mullins would surely have been pilloried for that so why let it happen ?Aintree have consulted the RSPCA on a number of initiatives. The fact we still get fatalities can be no surprise to anyone who looks at the memorials section and sees there have been some real dark days on many lesser stages than this.
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