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Prix Moulin 2020

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Viewing 11 posts - 91 through 101 (of 101 total)
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  • #1500186
    Blackcountry Kid
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    • Total Posts 173

    My view on this contest is summed up quite simply ….
    ‘give one enough rope’…need I say more?
    good luck to all

    #1500192
    Frenchy15
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1304

    In regards to the sprinting comment, it’s not something I think they should do, just something I’d like to see out of entertainment purposes. I think he proved again he stays a mile. I said that before the race. I’m not sure he can win the QEII on soft over a straight stiff mile though and therefore the stiff 6f sprint would be fascinating for him. He’s fast no doubt and therefore it would be a great spectacle.

    He ran overall well enough today but ultimately it was a very disappointing race in the end which promised a lot. Circus Maximus and Siskin absolutely did not run to their Sussex form Mike, they were both very disappointing, Siskin probably a little ground wise but also getting upset a bit in the stalls and CM has ran badly twice now so looks a little bit gone for the season. VL and Romanised ran really badly and Pinatubo didn’t want to race until the last 2 furlongs when it was all over.

    I simply don’t trust Pinatubo as a miler, he’s been beaten 3 times now and he just ran a weird race today. However, he can stay a mile no doubt.

    As a spectacle it was a very disappointing race. I have to change my opinion of Persian King as I never hold him in the top regard but that was impressive today. Hats off.

    #1500194
    Cork All Star
    Participant
    • Total Posts 536

    Appleby has said the plan for Pinatubo is the Foret and then the Breeders Cup Mile. It sounds like a good idea. A mile on a tight, turning track should suit him better than a mile on a stiff track like Ascot on soft ground.

    Then again, maybe he is just not that good and his reputation is inflated by just one performance he has never replicated.

    #1500195
    FinalFurlong91
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2149

    Just got home from golf and watched a replay

    The best horse came second, absolutely no doubt about it in my mind

    Looked a very strange race, moore went off very quick on Circus maximus and didn’t seem to try and take a breather at any point

    Siskin was also given a funny ride, I suppose someone had to make sure the front 2 didn’t get miles ahead but as the most doubtful stayer in the lineup he was always going to struggle after doing the donkey work

    #1500233
    jackh1092jackh1092
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    • Total Posts 2846

    He has beaten Circus Maximus 6 lengths and Circus Maximus and Siskin ran to their Sussex Stakes form

    Wow Mike, strongly disagree there, you are therefore saying Persian King and Pinatubo are probably rated level with Frankel. :whistle:

    As a spectacle it was a very disappointing race.

    To be honest, i’ve very little to say or than what Frenchy has here. Sometimes races are best left alone afterwards, and i’d say this is one of them.

    Siskin was also given a funny ride, I suppose someone had to make sure the front 2 didn’t get miles ahead but as the most doubtful stayer in the lineup he was always going to struggle after doing the donkey work

    Agree with that FF, hard to blame the jockey as it was clear what was happening from early, but for it to be Siskin was a nightmare!

    Twitter: Jackh1092
    Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!

    #1500236
    Frenchy15
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    • Total Posts 1304

    Listening to some sectional and pace analysis from ATR, reading all the comments and watching the race a few times, it’s actually a good race to pick apart I think now. It appears they didn’t go off very fast. They went a decent pace, but it wasn’t overly fast. WB said afterwards that he had no choice but to sit behind Siskin, because as soon as he gives Pinatubo daylight he shoots off, so he couldn’t get any closer.

    Pinatubo finished at 106% of his average pace which is very high, but proves he wasn’t running at his most optimum distributed pace. They couldn’t have gone off too fast as Persian King would’ve come back to them.

    You could easily make the assumption that you made FF, that Pinatubo was the best horse in the race and was unlucky, but I see it differently.

    It appears as though Pinatubo needs the perfect race over a mile to win a Group1. He was over a straight mile at Newmarket and lost, he went too early in the SJP and lost, he went too late yesterday and lost. That makes him very vulnerable to me. I don’t think the best horse lost yesterday, I think Persian King and jockey knew exactly what they were doing and rode a brilliant race.

    Persian King was the best horse in the race, he is the more complete miler. Pinatubo needs the perfect conditions. He might be quick, but that doesn’t make him the best miler. You need to have a wide range of abilities to be a group 1 winning miler. Pinatubo appears not to have enough of these in top company.

    (just to be clear, I’m not saying he can’t stay a mile, he obviously can)

    It’s another reason why they should let him take his chance over 6F, rather than keep trying to find a mile race that just drops perfectly for him.

    The other point worth highlighting and it would be really interesting to hear what Siskin’s connections say about it, is that ATR also described the going as Soft yesterday. It might have been slightly on the fast side as an average time, but all the other races were very slow and it might just be, they went a decent gallop in the Moulin hence the decent time.

    If it was Soft, it could only have been by watering the track. If that’s the case, that stinks to hell, considering what happened. Water the track to soft, combined with Persian King’s race tactics, combined with a 12/1 into 7/2 pre-race gamble.

    Something very fishy going on there…….thank goodness we at least have some clarity on the ground conditions over here.

    #1500243
    jackh1092jackh1092
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2846

    I don’t know Frenchy, but both RP and Timeform have it as good ground. Most of the time when i check their going descriptions they differ, so i’d say it was decent enough ground.

    Twitter: Jackh1092
    Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!

    #1500244
    Mike007
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2195

    6f? Nah,7f all the way. The ground was not soft yesterday the time doesnt relect that. Going was good to soft,changing to good after Race 4 (2.15). As for the money beforehand for PK i cant explain that.

    #1500249
    Frenchy15
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1304

    All the other times were slow, the Moulin was an exception, so we can’t go on that alone. Anyway, just an observation, I think we all agree to be wary of French racing when talking about ground conditions!

    I’d love to see him over 6F, I really would, but probably makes sense if they go Foret next and try the Breeders Cup.

    He’s been a fascinating horse to discuss whatever happens from now on, not sure there have been many horses recently that have drawn so much opinion and discussion!

    #1500253
    Mike007
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2195

    Wow Mike, strongly disagree there, you are therefore saying Persian King and Pinatubo are probably rated level with Frankel.

    They may have finished a bit closer if, in CM’s case he had someone to aim that, and Siskin the ground was a bit quicker but I don’t think the finishing order would’ve been much different.

    #1500554
    jackh1092jackh1092
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2846
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