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I never bad mouthed it. I just prefer sports that show off the pinnacle of someone or somethings physical abilities. In my opinion this sport does neither for the horse or jockey, however that is just an opinion but one which I believe I am entitled to?
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Brendanr, good post. There are far too many people about who dislike anything a little bit different, even if it’s 5-star fare (especially if it’s taking place in a non-anglophone country). This inward-looking attitude is a great drag on horse racing in the UK.
Hear, hear! I’d like to thank both Brendanr and Venusian for giving me at least the benefit of their informed knowledge about the intriguing but somewhat baffling spectacle I witnessed.
We’re all perhaps too quick to feel we must respect the ignorance and prejudice of people who know nothing, except that their opinion is as good as anyone else’s. Well, their opinion may be, but their judgement is not.
Relativism should only be carried so far, and neither Venusian nor Brendanr have been personally rude in their posts. Otherwise it is surely fair to castigate prejudice and ignorance for the dreary negatives they are?
One of my most intense pleasures in horse racing was watching live what I consider to be one of the greatest equine athlete ever, the legend that was Ourasi, win his fourth Prix d’Amerique as a ten year old. The last year he was eligible to run in the race. A feat not matched before or thereafter and will most assuredly not be matched in my lifetime.
Now there was a proper horse
Had an afternoon at Vincennes once. Quite enjoyed it but there were one or two too many races on the card for me and I left a bit early.
Interesting thread and history lesson from the experts.
I couldn’t see anything wrong and certainly the jockeys on the first two thought the one in brown had won fair and square. You could see jockeys on non-trotters (is this a phrase?) were very quick to pull them to the inside or outside and hook them back.
I’ve seen this many times at Cagnes sur Mer, Toulouse etc but never been to Vincennes. To be truthful I’ve never really enjoyed it in the same way it is hard to appreciate human walking races. My cousin wrote the definitive guide to harness racing in UK so I should go to a meeting on Welsh borders and will try to do this soon – although I take Venusian’s word on it’s level of acceptance in the trotting world.
I do have a couple of questions about the jockeys. Are they specialists of could normal flat/jumping jockeys have a go?
I could see the jockey on the eventual winner using his whip but surely this is risky – given the chances of over urging the horse and them breaking stride?
Adrian,
The jockeys are specialists and as far as I know there isn’t any interchanging between the two disciplines, apart from a guy called Jeanny Leclet who is about 60 and has mixed the two disciplines with great enthusiasm throughout his career. After retiring from the flat and jumps he made a comeback in mounted trotting races and as such was the oldest apprentice in history…. He’s still riding at Cagnes sur Mer.
Up until just a few years ago the trotting riders used to do rising trot which was a particularly unattractive spectacle to see full-grown men bouncing around on top of horses trotting at speed. Since the new position has come into fashion a couple of seconds have been trimmed off the course records.
Incidentally there are often harness races reserved for gallop racing professionals at provincial racecourses and trainers such as Arnaud Chaillé Chaillé are particularly talented in a sulky!Leclet sounds quite a character!
Christophe Soumillon won a (harness) amateur race either last year or the year before. It may have been his first ever drive.
Brendanr, good post. There are far too many people about who dislike anything a little bit different, even if it’s 5-star fare (especially if it’s taking place in a non-anglophone country). This inward-looking attitude is a great drag on horse racing in the UK.
Hear, hear! I’d like to thank both Brendanr and Venusian for giving me at least the benefit of their informed knowledge about the intriguing but somewhat baffling spectacle I witnessed.
We’re all perhaps too quick to feel we must respect the ignorance and prejudice of people who know nothing, except that their opinion is as good as anyone else’s. Well, their opinion may be, but their judgement is not.
Relativism should only be carried so far, and neither Venusian nor Brendanr have been personally rude in their posts. Otherwise it is surely fair to castigate prejudice and ignorance for the dreary negatives they are?
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Thanks.
Aragorn: Not sure why you would feel offended because I mentioned no one in particular. To your statement that and I quote" I just prefer sports that show off the pinnacle of someone or somethings physical abilities" that is exactly what you are seeing here, definitely where the horses are concerned and also concerning the drivers in the sulky. It takes a special talent to get your horse in the right position time and again at the right speed to have a chance to win, especially at the highest level. I’ve driven a few times in one on one competitions and just gauging how fast you need to travel around a decent circuit without losing the proper gait is anything but easy, plus you need to some decent upper body/arm strength to just keep control.
FoF: The day I take advice on manners from one of the rudest individuals on this forum (yourself) is the day I’ll consult Osama Bin Laden on the virtues of peace love and harmony. Ain’t happenin’ in this life.
Venusian: I thought the decision on Sunday was downright shocking.
Interesting thread and history lesson from the experts.
I couldn’t see anything wrong and certainly the jockeys on the first two thought the one in brown had won fair and square. You could see jockeys on non-trotters (is this a phrase?) were very quick to pull them to the inside or outside and hook them back.
I’ve seen this many times at Cagnes sur Mer, Toulouse etc but never been to Vincennes. To be truthful I’ve never really enjoyed it in the same way it is hard to appreciate human walking races. My cousin wrote the definitive guide to harness racing in UK so I should go to a meeting on Welsh borders and will try to do this soon – although I take Venusian’s word on it’s level of acceptance in the trotting world.
I do have a couple of questions about the jockeys. Are they specialists of could normal flat/jumping jockeys have a go?
I could see the jockey on the eventual winner using his whip but surely this is risky – given the chances of over urging the horse and them breaking stride?
They stood a US Champion Trotter in Wales for a few years – cant’ find him now but think it was Gothic Dream who stood there.
Far better standard in the US and as has been mentioned UK trotting is bent as a hell.
Brendanr, yes, the decison was extremely harsh. Maybe if Prince Gede had won by a couple of lengths rather than a head they may have been more lenient.
IS, Gothic Dream was a pacer, not a trotter (but anyway). It’s somewhat irrational that the sport in the UK is based on the dreary American setup when there’d be so much benefit to be had in adopting one of the European countries’ models.
As Brendanr has posted, the prize money to be won in France and other European countries is immense.
If my arithmetic is correct, the total prize fund for the 9 race Prix D’Amerique card at Vincennes on Sunday amounts to a tasty 1,688,000 euros, or around £1.5 million. The D’Amerique itself has 1 million euros up for grabs.
Not quite up to this year’s Arc perhaps, but still worth getting out of bed for, and makes races like the Cheltenham Gold cup and Champion Hurdle look positively underfunded.
I’m surprised how few forum members have contributed to this thread. Perhaps it’s because, as a sporting spectacle, it appears to me to lack the athleticsm of a three-legged race or the excitement of a sack race. It’s as easy on the eye as battery hens and baby seal clubbing. In terms of natural flow and movement it’s akin to John Seargent or a bout of constipation. Hopefully, the great British Public will show their disdain for this poor relation of true horseracing, where man and beast are moving in perfect harmony with nature.
I forgot about Soumillon… He’s really keen on trotting and has raced quite a few times in amateur races.
The disqualification decision in the Cornulier has not created any fuss among professionals here and apparently specialists can clearly tell that Prince Gede had become disunited in the final stages.
Céline Leclerc is a popular winner as she was involved in a nasty traffic accident last summer.I forgot about Soumillon… He’s really keen on trotting and has raced quite a few times in amateur races.
The disqualification decision in the Cornulier has not created any fuss among professionals here and apparently specialists can clearly tell that Prince Gede had become disunited in the final stages.
Céline Leclerc is a popular winner as she was involved in a nasty traffic accident last summer.Does seem to be the case. I’ve been watching this sport in France for countless years and I could not see any infringement but as you say there are keener judges than myself who deemed it to be the correct decision.
I’ve driven a few times in one on one competitions and just gauging how fast you need to travel around a decent circuit without losing the proper gait is anything but easy, plus you need to some decent upper body/arm strength to just keep control.
You’re not wrong.
Seeing that there were still a few drives up for grabs in Sunday’s D’Amerique, I thought I’d get in a bit of practice, then nip across to Paris on Sunday morning and take part.
But my two drives here…
http://www.prix-amerique.com/fr/top-10/ … drive.html
…both ended in dqs, once for breaking and once for being too slow!Another career option up the swanee.
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