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Would be interesting if he stepped up to 10 furlong and clashed with So You Think but I doubt very much if the Aussie horse could cope.
Sir Henry has done the right thing keeping him at a mile and he may continue to do so. His target will be to keep Frankel unbeaten so he’d have to be very confident he’d get the trip before taking the gamble on 10f. I suspect they will look for an easy race at 10f to check him out before crossing sword with So You Think.
Your first paragraph is laughable. SYT is clearly one of if not the best 10f horses in the world but you doubt he could keep up with frankel.
Then in the next para you suggest henry is wrapping frankel in cotton wool by only stretching him out under certain carefully calculated circumstances.
Mate you can’t have it both ways.
Henry isn’t wrapping him in cotton wool he’s only 3 years old and to date his best trip is 1 mile. Anyone with half a brain and a nonce for business would do exactly what Henry has done.
As far as So You Think being the best 10f horse in the world is concerned,that means very little. Can you for example name another specialist 10 furlong horse he has beaten?
Let’s look at what he’s achieved:-
He had a canter round the Curragh against selling platersHe beat Campanoligist a 12 furlong horse by 4 lengths who was then stuffed by Await the Dawn at Ascot.
He then gets beaten by the 2010 St Leger fav Rewilding running at least 2 furlongs below his best trip.
He then beats Derby and Arc winner Workforce who was running well below his best trip and I think it is safe to say isn’t a shadow of the horse he was last season.
He then beats Snow Fairy who’s trainer is adamant was not fully wound up as her main target was the Arc where she reversed placing with him.
Compare that to what the likes of what Sea The Stars achieved and you get a pretty moderate "best in the word" as far as class animals go.
Face facts you’ve been sold a lemon by AOB and the media and So You Think while a good horse is a long long way from being a great one.
I stand by what I said he couldn’t cope with Frankel.
What Frankel did in the Guineas and subsequently what he did to Canford Cliffs was a million light years ahead of anything So You Think has achieved
I hope they do meet next season, if they do 10 furlongs or not he wouldn’t get Frankel out of 2nd gear.
Dear oh dear. More Aussie whinging.
Time to face it Bruce. He aint that good!
A perfectly respectable 127/128 horse yes. Admirably tough and consistent yes. A genuine Group 1 performer yes. A strong gallloper yes. A world-beating superstar no.
Read your own journalist in the Melbourne Sun for a refreshingly un-blinkered Aussie view.
Your use of the term Bruce is cringe worthy,you probably think cobber and sheila are still used instead of going out 50 Years ago. You need to take your Frankel blinkers off pal before telling others to remove theirs. The journalist you are talking about is Matt Stewart i have spoken to Matt in regards to a couple of stories he has run. He knows the press over there will pick it up and people like you will lap it up
Would be interesting if he stepped up to 10 furlong and clashed with So You Think but I doubt very much if the Aussie horse could cope.
Sir Henry has done the right thing keeping him at a mile and he may continue to do so. His target will be to keep Frankel unbeaten so he’d have to be very confident he’d get the trip before taking the gamble on 10f. I suspect they will look for an easy race at 10f to check him out before crossing sword with So You Think.
Your first paragraph is laughable. SYT is clearly one of if not the best 10f horses in the world but you doubt he could keep up with frankel.
Then in the next para you suggest henry is wrapping frankel in cotton wool by only stretching him out under certain carefully calculated circumstances.
Mate you can’t have it both ways.
Henry isn’t wrapping him in cotton wool he’s only 3 years old and to date his best trip is 1 mile. Anyone with half a brain and a nonce for business would do exactly what Henry has done.
As far as So You Think being the best 10f horse in the world is concerned,that means very little. Can you for example name another specialist 10 furlong horse he has beaten?
Let’s look at what he’s achieved:-
He had a canter round the Curragh against selling platersHe beat Campanoligist a 12 furlong horse by 4 lengths who was then stuffed by Await the Dawn at Ascot.
He then gets beaten by the 2010 St Leger fav Rewilding running at least 2 furlongs below his best trip.
He then beats Derby and Arc winner Workforce who was running well below his best trip and I think it is safe to say isn’t a shadow of the horse he was last season.
He then beats Snow Fairy who’s trainer is adamant was not fully wound up as her main target was the Arc where she reversed placing with him.
Compare that to what the likes of what Sea The Stars achieved and you get a pretty moderate "best in the word" as far as class animals go.
Face facts you’ve been sold a lemon by AOB and the media and So You Think while a good horse is a long long way from being a great one.
I stand by what I said he couldn’t cope with Frankel.
What Frankel did in the Guineas and subsequently what he did to Canford Cliffs was a million light years ahead of anything So You Think has achieved
I hope they do meet next season, if they do 10 furlongs or not he wouldn’t get Frankel out of 2nd gear.
Read what you are writing mate!!! Rewilding was 2f short of his best distance, Workforce was below his best distance and not a shadow of the horse he was last season, Snow Fairy was’nt wound up!!! Full of excuses mate! For the record Danedream was for too good for them, but you are making excuses for the horses SYT has beaten. Then you judge Frankel on a 3yo win and then beating Canford Cliffs who many would say showed all was not well by hanging to the outside fence.
Dear oh dear. More Aussie whinging.
Time to face it Bruce. He aint that good!
A perfectly respectable 127/128 horse yes. Admirably tough and consistent yes. A genuine Group 1 performer yes. A strong gallloper yes. A world-beating superstar no.
Read your own journalist in the Melbourne Sun for a refreshingly un-blinkered Aussie view.
Your use of the term Bruce is cringe worthy,you probably think cobber and sheila are still used instead of going out 50 Years ago. You need to take your Frankel blinkers off pal before telling others to remove theirs. The journalist you are talking about is Matt Stewart i have spoken to Matt in regards to a couple of stories he has run. He knows the press over there will pick it up and people like you will lap it up
Well tie me kangaroo down sport!!! Sorry if I struck a nerve there Shane mate!
I think you will find Frankel is the one horse who has not needed any excuses all season. He just keeps pulverising the opposition.
In fact it’s you guys who are constantly trying to excuse SYT. Blaming the trainer, blaming the rider, blaming pretty much everything rather than just accepting the fact that he is not up to it.
There is a world of difference between the quality of middle distance racing in your country and in Europe and you know it. Like poor old Overdose your horse has been exposed. He is a DECENT group 1 horse and nothing more.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Dear oh dear. More Aussie whinging.
Time to face it Bruce. He aint that good!
A perfectly respectable 127/128 horse yes. Admirably tough and consistent yes. A genuine Group 1 performer yes. A strong gallloper yes. A world-beating superstar no.
Read your own journalist in the Melbourne Sun for a refreshingly un-blinkered Aussie view.
Your use of the term Bruce is cringe worthy,you probably think cobber and sheila are still used instead of going out 50 Years ago. You need to take your Frankel blinkers off pal before telling others to remove theirs. The journalist you are talking about is Matt Stewart i have spoken to Matt in regards to a couple of stories he has run. He knows the press over there will pick it up and people like you will lap it up
Well tie me kangaroo down sport!!! Sorry if I struck a nerve there Shane mate!
I think you will find Frankel is the one horse who has not needed any excuses all season. He just keeps pulverising the opposition.
In fact it’s you guys who are constantly trying to excuse SYT. Blaming the trainer, blaming the rider, blaming pretty much everything rather than just accepting the fact that he is not up to it.
There is a world of difference between the quality of middle distance racing in your country and in Europe and you know it. Like poor old Overdose your horse has been exposed. He is a DECENT group 1 horse and nothing more.
Mate learn some sayings from the 21st century, its not that hard
It is only one eyed people such as yourself who think there is a big difference between our middle distance horses and yours. Send some of your trainers over and we will teach them that you dont train each horse the same, dear oh dear December Draw has been improved lengths as has My Kingdom Of Fife and Glass Harmonium, in these cases it is not the class it is the training methods that have improved the horses.Seems like a stoute cast off sent to an Aussie trainer is a licence to print money, he must be getting embarrassed by now I’m sorry Jollyp but your post surely only proves my point. Glass Harmonium and December Draw were ordinary animals over here now mopping up your weaker races.
Do you honestly think they could come back over here and start winning races they perviously couldnt because your trainers are so much better? Hilarious.
PS I have enrolled in a post-grad course entitled "21st Century Aussie expressions" – they gave me a starter for 10: "You need to rein your neck in mate!" How’s that???
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
I’m sorry Jollyp but your post surely only proves my point. Glass Harmonium and December Draw were ordinary animals over here now mopping up your weaker races.
Do you honestly think they could come back over here and start winning races they perviously couldnt because your trainers are so much better? Hilarious.
PS I have enrolled in a post-grad course entitled "21st Century Aussie expressions" – they gave me a starter for 10: "You need to rein your neck in mate!" How’s that???
And you need to accept the fact that the horses have been improved, you obviously know little about Australian racing if you think the Group 1 Turnbull Stakes that December Draw won is a weak race it has been won by some great horses.He went around at 20-1 at Lingfield
must be the most improved horse in the world!Ok Jolly – you win. ALL those European rejects about to contest the Caulfield Cup are now world beaters. Aussie Aussie Aussie hey?!
You are right about one thing – I know very little about Aussie racing….I care even less.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Ok Jolly – you win. ALL those European rejects about to contest the Caulfield Cup are now world beaters. Aussie Aussie Aussie hey?!
You are right about one thing – I know very little about Aussie racing….I care even less.
Now i didn’t say they were world beaters! I know they are not but the aussie prep seems to be agreeing with them and Jonnibake i care even less that you care even less about aussie racing
As far as December Draw and Glass Harmonium go:
December Draw improved throughout the 2010 season, winning two handicaps and just a length third in a listed race for William Knight. Mr Knight isn’t thought to be one of our best trainers and not surprising December Draw has maintained that improvement for his Australian connections this term. For which they obviously deserve credit. It’s interesting December Draw has an Australian bred dams sire Danzero.
Glass Harmonium went in to the 2010 season as an unexposed four year old, capable of improving in to a Group 1 animal. So much so I put him in a ten to follow competition. Started off well by beating subsequent Group 1 winner Redwood in the Group 3 Gordon Richards. Only third in his next race (the Brigadier Gerard) when held up off a slow pace. Started 13/8 fav but beaten by Stotsfold who has a turn of foot and the front running Tazeez. Hampered on the turn when only 6th at Royal Ascot in the Group 1 Prince Of Wales. Not that he is good enough to win a race like that. Couldn’t recapture early season form after a small injury kept him off until October. Again 6th in the Group 1 Champion and well down the field in Hong Kong only other run.
For all the bluster about Glass Harmonium improving for his Australian connections, he’s still to win a Group 1. However, potential shown for Sir Michael Stoute early in his career could yet be proven in Australia. Sir Michael is known as one who gives horses time to recover and hope his Australian colleagues give him credit for doing so, if a Group 1 race comes Glass Harmoniums way.
Value Is Everything"He is only a three year old" you say. Three year olds win the Arc regularly. Next year he will stretch him out you say. If that is not coddling a horse I don’t know what is.Three year olds here are expected to compete in th Triple Crown. Get real with "he is only a three year old".Sea the Stars won the Guineas without the bluster and swagger of Frankel but he won it with a ton in hand. There was no cotton wool and mollycoddling him.Oxx said the only way to find out if he can stay the trip and win the Derby is to run in it.Sea the Stars won in England, France, and Ireland and the Forum had uproar because he did not tackle the BC and go after Zarkava.There was no talk of "he is only a three year old".Canford Cliffs was injured when beaten.That is a fact whether one likes it or not.Frankly my dear Frankel is treated like a child so that we can adore him like the child king of Tibet.By the way I love English Muffins for breakfast and a nice cup of English tea last thing at night.I am not prejudiced.I am a great fan of the Beetles and I think the lines of the older Jags. are the nicest of all cars.I buy Birds Custard for making English Trifle for desert and I still love Cadbuty chocolate.Dundee Marmalade is my fav. after fifty years of experimentation.I think English actors are great(including Welsh and Scottish).I could go on.So in many ways I have been colonialized despite being Irish.
Presto
Quote by AOB in Sunday’s RP:
"He has never run over this trip for us, but we are
hoping
it won’t be a problem".
His jockey expressed similar reservations in a BBC interview on the day of the race.Also, dress the form up how you like, his Arc run was rated SYT’s worst performance of the season.
Firstly, to me that quote looks like something they often say when a horse steps up in trip. It reflects slight trepidation rather than absolute certainty but certainly doesn’t suggest they’d go back to get the trip. And of course if they went forward they would’ve been posted 4 or 5 wide. It also acknowledges that he did run over longer distances down under, just not "for them".
How am I "dressing up" the form? If you think SYT "just wasn’t good enough" and had "every chance" despite finishing best of all bar the winner (better than Snow Fairy) w/o taking into account the track, you must think that Shareta turned in a better 12f performance than SYT, Snow Fairy, St Nicholas Abbey, Meandre, and Sarafina. They had every chance too. You can’t have it both ways.Glass Harmonium didn’t improve much if at all, form with Redwood matches up to what he’s done in AUS. There’s no doubt that AUS has weaker middle distance horses, and I’m a lot closer to Australian racing than European. So You Think was dominant, the best in decades down under. Nothing could get near him. But landing in a decent European middle-distance year he found 3 horses around his level at 10f (Workforce, Rewilding, Snow Fairy) and one surely above (Danedream).
"He is only a three year old" you say. Three year olds win the Arc regularly. Next year he will stretch him out you say. If that is not coddling a horse I don’t know what is.Three year olds here are expected to compete in th Triple Crown. Get real with "he is only a three year old".Sea the Stars won the Guineas without the bluster and swagger of Frankel but he won it with a ton in hand. There was no cotton wool and mollycoddling him.Oxx said the only way to find out if he can stay the trip and win the Derby is to run in it.Sea the Stars won in England, France, and Ireland and the Forum had uproar because he did not tackle the BC and go after Zarkava.There was no talk of "he is only a three year old".Canford Cliffs was injured when beaten.That is a fact whether one likes it or not.Frankly my dear Frankel is treated like a child so that we can adore him like the child king of Tibet.By the way I love English Muffins for breakfast and a nice cup of English tea last thing at night.I am not prejudiced.I am a great fan of the Beetles and I think the lines of the older Jags. are the nicest of all cars.I buy Birds Custard for making English Trifle for desert and I still love Cadbuty chocolate.Dundee Marmalade is my fav. after fifty years of experimentation.I think English actors are great(including Welsh and Scottish).I could go on.So in many ways I have been colonialized despite being Irish.
Brilliant!!!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Poor ride on SYT…if he was drawn in 4 i think he would have won. I surprised he didn’t move up earlier in the race rather than leaving it so late. Mind you the winner had flown
"He is only a three year old" you say. Three year olds win the Arc regularly. Next year he will stretch him out you say. If that is not coddling a horse I don’t know what is.Three year olds here are expected to compete in th Triple Crown. Get real with "he is only a three year old".Sea the Stars won the Guineas without the bluster and swagger of Frankel but he won it with a ton in hand. There was no cotton wool and mollycoddling him.Oxx said the only way to find out if he can stay the trip and win the Derby is to run in it.Sea the Stars won in England, France, and Ireland and the Forum had uproar because he did not tackle the BC and go after Zarkava.There was no talk of "he is only a three year old".Canford Cliffs was injured when beaten.That is a fact whether one likes it or not.Frankly my dear Frankel is treated like a child so that we can adore him like the child king of Tibet.
Sea The Stars and Frankel are two different types Andyod. Sea The Stars settled well in the Guineas yet did not win with as much in hand as you suggest. His Guineas form (or Derby for that matter) can not be rated highly. It wasn’t until the Eclipse that Sea The Stars improved in to the Great horse he was. Being one that settled well and bred to get further (probably 12f), it wasn’t in any way a difficult decision for Oxx to take. Just did the right thing for the horse in running in the Derby.
Contrast that with Frankel, who at the time of the Guineas was difficult to settle. They tried to settle Frankel behind a pacemaker in the 7f Greenham, and failed, Queally soon going to the front. In the Guineas connections decided to let the horse go. Showing tremendous speed, so good it would’ve been interesting to see him back in trip for a sprinting campaign. Immediately after the Newmarket race, despite believing I’d seen something very special, I laid the horse at 5/1 for Epsom. There was no way Frankel would stay the Derby trip at that stage of his career. Like John Oxx, Sir Henry did the right thing for the horse and ruled the second classic out. Nothing to do with mollycodelling or wrapping him up in cotton wool. After more experience, the horse now settles a bit (and I do mean a bit) better. There’s a chance Frankel will now get 10 furlongs, not 12.
It would’ve been nice for Sea The Stars to run in the St Leger and/or Breeders Cup, but he didn’t. He had a better chance of staying the Leger trip than Frankel had of winning the Derby. But Oxx came to the conclusion Sea The Stars wouldn’t stay, which is fair enough. I suspect the reason he didn’t run in the Breeders Cup was more to do with realising he wasn’t at his best in the Arc and had gone in his coat by then. Right decision.
Sea The Stars was a mature three year old Andyod, with an ideal temperament. Frankel is immature and has his quirks that may be ironed out given time / racing. Two different horses.
Cecil is as guilty as Oxx in mollycodelling, ie NOT GUILTY.
Canford Cliffs may have been injured in the Sussex, it does not matter when assessing Frankel. Just go by how far he beat Rio De La Plata compared to Canford Cliffs and Goldikova in the Sussex and/or Excelebration in France.
Value Is EverythingGreat to see Danedream win so impressively and hopefully the SYT hype has died down some now
Not been on for a while so thanks for the congrats – hope to see her in the US now
Am sure the plan was for the opposition to follow the pacemaker at too strong a pace. Had they done so So You Think would’ve been in the best position. However….
A) Treasure Beach was ignored.
and
B) Ground conditions were firmer than anticipated, allowing the leaders to hold on for longer, too long.Those two things weren’t known by Heffernen when settling So You Think out the back. So it can’t (imo) be classed as a poor ride. Just circumstances did not suit.
So You Think performed with great credit to run as well as he did given circumstances. Still running on well enough to suggest he stays 12 furlongs. Had things gone better (pacewise) I suspect he’d have finished second.
Value Is Everything
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