- This topic has 30 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 14 years ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Ever the pragmatist, DJ?
GD, losing Orpsie Boy would have hurt, I’m sure. If there is a better handicapped horse in training I’m not aware of it Even if Mrs Carr were to do a below average training job he’ll win. I still won’t be as happy as if Nick Littmoden had done the business. Would you? Would anyone?
Same as if Niche Market was to win the National.
Ian McInnes is another example. Tore the house down on the Wolverhampton polytrack in 2006/7 a performance which attracted new owners by the lorry load.
Cleverly, he followed up with two consecutive crappy seasons, thus losing most of the afore mentioned lorry load of new owners, like Ann Morris and others. When Mrs Morris’ Perfect Blossom won for Kevin Ryan at Nottingham in May after being moved from McInnes, I watched them all bouncing around the winners enclosure like a Linkin Park moshpit and I thought to myself, horse racing is one bollox of a cold game at times and raised a glass to McInnes.
I’ll do the same when Orpsie Boy wins – and Niche Market.
Edited for stupid naming mistake 13.32 Wednesday
Lets see what happens to Niche Market this season and if the owner enjoys his experience in a big yard run as a business. There is alot to be said for a trainer having the time to spend with an owner, on big race days he may find himself more distanced from his trainer, as he obviously has many important horses to run.
Lets see what happens to Niche Market this season and if the owner enjoys his experience in a big yard run as a business. There is alot to be said for a trainer having the time to spend with an owner, on big race days he may find himself more distanced from his trainer, as he obviously has many important horses to run.
Wouldn’t not having to spend time in PN’s company be regarded as a bonus in some circles.
I don’t think I have ever wanted a horse to lose as much as I wanted Orpsie Boy to lose tonight. But – of course – it was always going to win.
All the best, Nick. What comes round goes round.
Incidentally, I wanted to ask a question earlier but it slipped my mind.
Has any trainer ever turned down a horse moved from a fellow trainer’s yard by a disloyal owner?
Maxilon
Given the recent successes of Orpsie Boy and Sarasota Sunshine isn’t it fair to say that had they stayed with Littmoden, there is a fair chance that they would continue to underachieve. I’m not one for disloyalty for the sake of it, but it’s a two-way street and trainers shouldn’t get complacent that past success means that owners should feel duty bound to keep their horses there.
Orpsie Boy has been a cracking sprinter down the years, doing his connections proud, I for one was happy to see him back in the winners enclosure tonight, and if it meant he had to leave Nick Littmoden to do that then I’ve no problem with that. Would the horse have won tonight had he still been in the care of Littmoden? I don’t know for sure, but I wouldn’t have bet on it!
DJ
As you know from the AW thread, I’m a huge fan of Orpsie Boy and have backed the horse regularly, particularly at Ascot and Wolverhampton.
From reading your posts, you and I definitely differ on one thing: I believe that training skill is normally distributed and I don’t think there is ten pounds difference between eighty percent of the six hundred British trainers. Ten percent are among the world’s best and ten percent shouldn’t be let near a bowled goldfish, never mind a racehorse – the rest are pretty interchangable.
Some are luckier than others, some are shrewder, some are better with the programme book, some with the feed bucket and some seem more prone to illnesses, but skillwise? Is there that much difference?
Is Ruth Carr
that
much better than Littmoden?
Ruth Carr is currently everyone’s "go-to"sprint trainer (it used to be Dandy, who seems to be falling out of fashion), but I’ve also seen some hi-jinks with the yard and some very, very disappointing performances from horses which should have run a lot better than they did. She’s not Andre Fabre despite the hype.
So to answer your question, I would argue that virus-free Littmoden yard would have won with Orpsie Boy earlier and that some horses (like Orpsie Boy), belong with certain trainers – he’s been in Newmarket since he was a yearling in 2004 and he’s part of the furniture.
Wouldn’t that Pontefract victory tonight have been much sweeter had the trainer’s name on the racecard been Nick Littmoden?
You do have a big point though. I haven’t got an ironclad argument against the points you make and I know I’m being emotional but wouldn’t the whole game begin to unravel if every time an owner gets disgruntled, they changed trainers? Does loyalty have value any more?
Think it’s a bit like football managers being changed every five minutes, Max..part and parcel of our ‘throw away society’ imo.
Credit must be due to Mssrs Edgar and Donaldson for keeping the magnificent Borderlescott with Robin Bastiman all this time.
Robin has had 31 winners in 5 years at 5.5% and just the two winners this year.
In the US, with statistics like that, a decent tool like Borderlescott would have gone to Asmussen after his three year old career: Even a good trainer like Helen Pitts lost Curlin the minute the owners saw potential and the owners of Mine That Bird showed precious little sentiment recently despite the Kentucky Derby win.
Anyway, get well soon, Borderlescott.
I’ve only just heard this; I do hope he’ll be ok. It was lovely to see him win yesterday.
Group One winning sprinter
Sir Gerry
runs in the Stewards Cup today for the tiny yard of Chris Dwyer after being removed from John Best by owner Gerry Galligan.
40/1 available. This is either another petty decision on behalf of Mr Galligan – they landed a sizeable punt at Salisbury just last month in a quality Listed contest – or it’s a plot.
Does loyalty have value any more?
Wally Sturt’s enduring patronage of Jim Old despite an increasing run of very average seasons suggests it might.
Unless Mrs McFayden-Murray is related to him in some way, the extent to which she is still wont to toss training fees in the direction of Donal Nolan year in, year out, is pretty touching too. Ditto John Reed, owner with Michael Chapman.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
- Total Posts 17716
If you were paying upwards of £12,000 a year to keep a horse in training, Max, and (despite being capable) it wasn’t winning, would loyalty enter your mind?
The likes of the aforementioned Robin Bastiman – who managed to get the thrown-in Singeur beaten at Leicester this afternoon – are fortunate enough as it is, without thinking they have a divine right to maintain their customer base. In fact, I would suggest Bastiman is more fortunate than most – where would he be without Borderlescott’s name to cash in on?
I must have missed this, AJ. The answer is yes. Loyalty is my second most admirable trait.
On topic. Littmoden has a juvenile running in the opening nursery of Ascot’s Autum Festival. I’ve seen both
Cometh’s
wins and the horse looks very promising indeed.
Currently a big price, I’ll be cheering this one on tomorrow – though Tregoning should take the race with Group One entered Daraajat, a rare sliver of light in a murky season.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.