April 16, 2007 at 14:49 #1405cormack15Keymaster
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History is littered with successful men who have handed over the tiller to their offspring only to see the ship sail off course.
I wondered what people thought of David Pipe’s chances of equalling or surpassing the achievements of his father?April 16, 2007 at 15:41 #52341FriggoMember
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Seemingly Martin is still very much involved, possibly even still running the show by some accounts, so for me it’s too early to judge.
IMO, the stable isn’t quite as strong in terms of horses as it was in Martin’s heyday, so I would have to factor this in. It also seems to be more reliant on David Johnson than ever. I think Martin has passed over at the right time for him, and David has a lot of work ahead of him that’s for sure. I have faith that the stable will continue to be among the best in the country, but whether or not we will ever see the glory days of the 90’s relived is a bit doubtful the way things seem to be going.April 16, 2007 at 15:55 #52342AragornMember
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I don’t think you can knock Pipe jnr’s first season. He’s had over 100 winners and landed a couple of big races including a festival winner.
I would agree that the quality of animal has seemingly declined though. Johnson hasn’t had any new stars come through this season, which you would expect..April 16, 2007 at 16:18 #52345LingfieldMember
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Would be interesting to know the influence of Pipe snr. on training and placing horses. He was meant to be in serious ill health with his legs gone but looked OK to me recently.<br>David inhereted a stable in relative decline. He appears more personable and outgoing than his father and has widened his owner base. He needed to do this as the stable was too dependant on David Johnson and arguably Johnson too dependant on the Pipes!.<br>In terms of numbers of winners and prize money David has done well.<br>However I believe the dynamic to watch is with David Johnson. The latter bemoaned on Saturday that Pipe had trained plenty of winners for others but not one for him in 3 months (actually I think he overlooked Well Chief winning at Newbury in Feb). Furthermore it was a good job Montieth and Powell had trained winners for him! Appears that the Pipes and Johnson’s chosen rider TJ Murphy don’t really get on and that the relationship appeared to strain further at Aintree when Murphy cried off Vodka Bleu to the apparent annoyance of D Pipe. When Pipe was asked on the Saturday late morning whether Murphy was resuming he said he didn’t know and they hadn’t spoken! He also appeared rather equivocal and surprised earlier in the season when asked about the relative merits of Murphy and McCoy. The Pipes have appointed Scu jnr as stable rider though still enjoy something of a love in with McCoy (he still shows as a staff member on the website !) and will use him when available. Murphy only gets on one or two of the non johnson runners. Many observers predict that Murphy will lose the Johnson job soon, but thus far Johnson is taking his side stating that the lack of Pipe winners has marooned Murphy in the 90s for the season. Virtually all of Pipe’s better rated runners are Johnson owned though many seem injured, "gone" or badly handicapped.He seems to have few promising young horses and I don’t know who is buying for him.<br>Could a parting be imminent and what would the effect be on the stable?April 16, 2007 at 17:19 #52346apracingParticipant
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<br>Two things in David’s record that are certainly different from his father – firstly he’s had more winners over fences than hurdles this season, which I doubt has ever happened there before.
Secondly, David has almost given up running horses on the flat. He’s yet to have a flat winner and has only run four horses. And I can’t remember him buying any horses out of claimers or sellers either, though I may have missed the odd one.
To separate himself from his father, I reckon he needs to bring one or two substantial new owners and there’s not much sign of that as yet.
APApril 16, 2007 at 17:40 #52349ZebraParticipant
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He’s a wealthy Scottish architect who had decided to go into racing in the last 2-3 years. He’s also got flat horses with John Oxx I believeApril 16, 2007 at 17:42 #52350bluechariotMember
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Some interesting comments Lingfield, are they in the public domain or did you hear them from someone?
The situatuion with Murphy has not been good for the stable nor Murphy. Very unusual for a major owner to employ a jockey that the trainer does not have confidence in, can only lead to friction.
I don’t think Scudamore is a good appointment.
I cannot see the stable returning to the glory daysApril 16, 2007 at 20:19 #52351JaneParticipant
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Standin Obligation has been moved from David Pipe’s yard to Monteith.April 16, 2007 at 20:34 #52353MountyMember
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AP, Pipe bought MARIDAY out of a Huntingdon seller on Easter Monday for Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£6,000. Mariday was making his debut for Jim Best and had been laid out for the race – backed from an early 10-1 into half that price he made much of the running before being collared close home (matched at 1.3 in running if I remember rightly). He runs in the 3.40 at Exeter tomorrow.April 16, 2007 at 21:21 #52354davidjohnsonMember
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Wasn’t it one of Pipey’s that won the seller? Wonder if Pipey knew how well handicapped his was and the fact that Mariday got so close told it’s own story as to what a good mark he himself is on. Will be interesting to see how he gets on tomorrow. No surprise if the horse continues to improve for a good while yet. Limited evidence but Jim Best and David Pipe look far better trainers than Lawrence Wells and Luke Dace I think.April 16, 2007 at 21:32 #52355FallonmanMember
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I agree with Lingfield the catalyst is David Johnson. There is no doubt that numerically it hasn’t been a bad season for the Pipe team but in terms of winning quality races it has been rather lacking in that department.<br>DJ must be wondering where the next winner is coming from and Well Chiefs performance must have been very disappointing for all concerned. <br>The bottom line is most of the horses are badly handicapped or out of form or just past their best. I dont see horses such as Marcel making any further improvement and I can see more horses being moved by DJ.<br>The jockey situation cannot be good for anyone connected to the yard. Its obvious that Murphy is not flavour of the month and the relationship is so strained that they barely speak with each other. <br>Certainly DP looked very agitated when interviewed after TJM told him that he wouldn’t ride anymore that day. As it turned out Vodka Bleu ran a stinker and I think that any inference that the jockey is the reason behind the DJ horses running badly is way off the mark.<br>However it would not surprise me if Murphy is made the scapegoat for what be a very expensive season for DJ.April 16, 2007 at 21:33 #52357LingfieldMember
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DJ- the race at Huntingdon was indeed won by Pipe’s Park Lane Express
bluechariot- all D Pipe’s comments were on TV though cannot remember whether C4 or satellite. D Johnson’s comments in RP
Jane- 2005 Imperial Cup winner Medison has also headed north recently. Montieth has done well with cast offs like Andre Chenier, Gone Too Far, Nerone, Lutea and Locksmith. Maybe it’s change of scene and training methods or less competition from the likes of Nicholls, King and Hobbs.April 16, 2007 at 21:34 #52358davidjohnsonMember
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DJ’s biggest concern over the jumps over the next few months in whether Alan King will get a win or two out of Unicorn Reward I think. :biggrin:April 17, 2007 at 08:17 #52360SeagullMember
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Mounty<br>Tom and Jim were not too happy to lose Mariday to the Pipe mob and it was certainly laid out to win that race but backed off course ew.<br>Lady Pilot was also laid out last week when winning for the Lewes yard.<br>Fingers got badly burned on one of the runners recently<br>though!<br>Overall Jim and Tom Best are doing ok <br>www.jimandtombestracing.co.uk
(Edited by Seagull at 9:23 am on April 17, 2007)
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