- This topic has 43 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 8 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Barry Connell receiving much praise on twitter for stating TTT will not run, reportedly citing the Fenton steroids case.
Seems very odd to me. I look forward to hearing his reasoning
From RP
THE TULLOW TANK will miss next month’s Cheltenham Festival after owner Barry Connell took the dramatic decision not to run his star novice in the aftermath of Thursday’s adjournment of Philip Fenton’s court hearing for possession of anabolic steroids.
The Tullow Tank, twice a Grade 1 winner this season and as short as 8-1 third favourite for the Neptune Investment Management Novices’ Hurdle, will not run again until the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine’s case against Fenton comes to a conclusion, Connell said.
He said: "In light of the uncertainty surrounding the deferral of legal proceedings against Philip Fenton, I have decided that neither of my two horses in training with Philip, The Tullow Tank and Volvalien, will run in any races until the matter is dealt with. In the meantime both horses will remain in training with Philip as usual."
Volvalien, twice placed in Leopardstown bumper contests, could have run in the Weatherbys Champion Bumper at Cheltenham.
At a hearing at Carrick-on-Suir District Court, County Tipperary, on Thursday judge Terence Finn agreed to a delay proposed by Fenton’s representative, adjourning the case until March 20 to allow the defence to prepare submissions.
John Ryan, junior counsel, acting on behalf of the Minster of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, said he was in court seeking a hearing date and had 12 to 15 witnesses.
Fenton, trainer of Last Instalment and Dunguib, is charged with being in possession of prohibited substances, including anabolic steroids, when his yard was visited by Department of Agriculture officials in January 2012.
In a statement the BHA said they lacked information about the charges against Fenton.
"We are in contact with the Irish Turf Club with a view to gathering as much information as is currently available," the statement said.
"It would be inappropriate to comment further or to speculate about this issue until we are in possession of the relevant facts."
Hmm. Will Mr. O’Leary feel pressured to follow suit? He doesn’t seem the sort to be fair.
Judging by twitter, I’m in a minority of one here. I find this astounding and can only assume my brain has malfunctioned!
I just posted this on my blog…not a single supporter of it so far!
"In light of the uncertainty surrounding the deferral of legal proceedings against Philip Fenton, I have decided that neither of my two horses in training with Philip, The Tullow Tank and Volvalien, will run in any races until the matter is dealt with. In the meantime both horses will remain in training with Philip as usual." So says Barry Connell, owner of The Tullow Tank, among others
What is Mr Connell’s reasoning here? If P Fenton is eventually found guilty of possessing illegal substances (Fenton faces eight charges in relation to alleged possession of Nitrotain and Ilium Stanabolic and prescription medicines including Engemycin 10%, Neomycin Penicillin and Marbocyl 10%.), the past performances of all his horses will be considered suspect.
One of those horses is The Tullow Tank. If Fenton is guilty, Mr Connell can take his horses away, but there is nothing he can do about The Tullow Tank’s reputation. If Fenton is innocent, tongues will still wag and there will still be zero Mr Connell can do about TTT’s reputation.
If the horse moves to another trainer, punters will no doubt wait to see if he runs to past form levels before having a serious bet. If P Fenton had been tried today and found guilty, I assume Mr Connell would have moved his horses. Would he then have allowed TTT to run at Cheltenham given that the uncertainty he cited in his statement had been removed? If so, then punters would face exactly the same dilemma as they will when TTT next runs.
But the facts as they stand now are these:
The Tullow Tank has been dope tested after each of his 6 hurdles victories and has passed each test.
The Irish Turf club has not barred the horse from any future races
The BHA has not barred the horse from any future races
Philip Fenton has not been convicted in this case.Mr Connell is leaving his horses in the care of P Fenton. Now that suggests he is being scrupulously fair to the trainer in not removing/leaving his horses until the outcome of the case is known. But he has not applied the same fairness to his horses or the supporters of those horses. If The Tullow Tank is fit and well, he is entitled to take his chance at Cheltenham. I have little financial interest in him doing so: I’ve backed him for The Neptune but with a NRFB guarantee – perhaps even a full refund if Betvictor decide to follow most of the other layers in refunding stakes. I wonder if they will refund stakes on the horses beaten by M Al Zarooni’s winners after that man admitted doping?
Perhaps an enterprising journalist like Chris Cook or Greg Wood of The Guardian will ask Mr Connell to explain his thinking in more detail. Racing deserves a full explanation of the reasoning behind a decision which, to my knowledge, is unprecedented.
Seems illogical to me. Like someone laying down their jacket for a lady wearing sensible shoes on a dry pavement.
This is not a Godolphin situation.
I was in two minds about this.
After some soul searching just about came down against banning Fenton horses, because innocent until proven guilty is paramount.
However, everyone knows just because a horse passes drugs tests on the day, does not mean that horse has never been given steroids… There is always going to be a question mark against any Fenton horse and this is the most imortant/prestigious meeting of the season. Worst result for the integrity of Irish/British racing would be if Fenton were to have a Cheltenham winner. Fairly big chance of The Tullow Tank being booed in to the winning enclosure.
Therefore, imo Mr Connell should be applauded for taking his horse out.
Value Is EverythingIt’s all adding 2 and 2 together when all available evidence is that the horses have been tested negative.
He may have been treating his dogs with the steroids, he may not have even know of their presence. So far, nobody nows any of the finer details until the case is heard.
Innocent until proven guilty and he should be free to run his horses.
This was the case in UK with Gerard Butler who trained winners up until he was tried.I was in two minds about this.
After some soul searching just about came down against banning Fenton horses, because innocent until proven guilty is paramount.
However, everyone knows just because a horse passes drugs tests on the day, does not mean that horse has never been given steroids… There is always going to be a question mark against any Fenton horse and this is the most imortant/prestigious meeting of the season. Worst result for the integrity of Irish/British racing would be if Fenton were to have a Cheltenham winner. Fairly big chance of The Tullow Tank being booed in to the winning enclosure.
Therefore, imo Mr Connell should be applauded for taking his horse out.
My point is that wherever or whenever the horse next runs, the suspicions will be the same, even if Fenton is found not guilty. What’s been done cannot be undone. If the horse has benefited from steroids, that cannot be changed. It will be no different if he turns out at Aintree or Punchestown. If Connell’s stance is a moral one, then he should retire the horse.
By leaving his horses with Fenton, he appears to be standing by the trainer until a court decides. By withdrawing his horse, he appears to be doing exactly the opposite. Deeply flawed logic, imo.
The steroids were found at Fentons yard in 2012. According to official figures provided by the Turf Club (the Irish BHA), they carried out a total of 70 drug tests on horses in training during 2012.
So whether or not Fenton was using steroids on The Tullow Tank or any other horse in his yard, the chances of him being caught by a test were about one in a thousand.
This blog provides the figures and is worth a read for its take on the whole situation:
Should Last Instalment win the Gold Cup, which is entirely possible, would some see it as a tainted victory?
Would be a real shame.
Some great points on the thread – as SC says it seems a contradictory stance by Mr. Connell.
One thing to also consider, The Tullow Tank’s first run under rules was Jan 2013, when not in the ownership of Brian Connell. The horse had ran once in a p2p the year before (don’t know who trained him at this point).
I suspect that he doesn’t want to run his horses when he is asked about doping should they win. I would also assume that he has received information from Philip Fenton about the situation and is happy enough to keep the horses in training with him.
Gigginstown’s latest statement via E O’Leary:
"I’ve always thought that, in Ireland and in England, you’re innocent until proven guilty," O’Leary said. "So we’ll let justice take its course. He [Fenton] is a friend of ours. Before we made any statement, he assured us of his innocence. We fully believe him. It’ll be a talking point, unfortunately. But I don’t know. We’re innocent, the horse is innocent, he [Fenton] thinks he’s innocent, so I don’t see the problem."
Now surely Fenton has given Connell exactly the same assurances? If Connell believes him, he runs the horse. If he doesn’t, he takes his horses away. He’s done neither.
Praise for his dignity and principles are all very well, and I have no opinion on those, nor am I questioning his intentions. What I am saying is that journalists should be asking him to justify his logic.
While they’re at it, they might also ask if he’d have taken the same decision had Our Conor been in Fenton’s yard…perfectly valid question.
My point is that wherever or whenever the horse next runs, the suspicions will be the same, even if Fenton is found not guilty. What’s been done cannot be undone. If the horse has benefited from steroids, that cannot be changed.
It will be no different if he turns out at Aintree or Punchestown
. If Connell’s stance is a moral one, then he should retire the horse.
By leaving his horses with Fenton, he appears to be standing by the trainer until a court decides. By withdrawing his horse, he appears to be doing exactly the opposite. Deeply flawed logic, imo.
TTT will not be running until the case is over Joe. So if it is not over by Aintree or Punchestown TTT will not be running there either. Connell suspendeding his own horses until we know the truth.
Value Is EverythingMy point is that wherever or whenever the horse next runs, the suspicions will be the same, even if Fenton is found not guilty. What’s been done cannot be undone. If the horse has benefited from steroids, that cannot be changed.
It will be no different if he turns out at Aintree or Punchestown
. If Connell’s stance is a moral one, then he should retire the horse.
By leaving his horses with Fenton, he appears to be standing by the trainer until a court decides. By withdrawing his horse, he appears to be doing exactly the opposite. Deeply flawed logic, imo.
TTT will not be running until the case is over Joe. So if it is not over by Aintree or Punchestown TTT will not be running there either. Connell suspendeding his own horses until we know the truth.
What Joe is getting at though, is if the owner thinks his horse has been doped he should remove him from the trainer and if he doesn’t he should let it run.
What purpose does this self-banning actually serve?Ginger, unless Fenton confesses to something, there is no truth to be known, only a verdict to be reached on whether he had dope on his premises.
He is not on trial for doping, so his owners have a simple choice: do I believe he doped my horse or not?
Ginger, unless Fenton confesses to something, there is no truth to be known, only a verdict to be reached on whether he had dope on his premises.
He is not on trial for doping, so his owners have a simple choice: do I believe he doped my horse or not?
I always believe a Court’s decision (in Western Europe anyway) so
"truth"
=
"verdict"
as far as I am concerned.
With respect Joe, it is not so simple as you make out. Your
"do I believe he doped my horse or not"
question does not come in to it. An owner has no knowledge of what his/her trainer is giving the horse so can never be 100% certain.
It does not matter whether Fenton is on trial for doping or not. He is on trial for having dope on the premises. Therefore, TTT has a much higher than normal risk of having been given performance enhancing drugs, a much higher risk of having an unfair advantage in any future race (until such a time when any advantage of drug use has worn off).
Yes, innocent until proven guilty is the right attitude to have. But an owner is also entitled to decide not to run his/her horse for any reason he/she sees fit. eg Going or distance or much higher risk of an unfair advantage.
Under these particular circumstances I would not want to run my horse knowing there was a higher than normal chance it had an unfair advantage, possibly even a considerable unfair advantage. At the same time keeping it with my trainer until the court case is over.
Value Is EverythingFirstly, I would like to thank Mr Connell for getting my money back on The Tullow Tank. He would have won nothing at the Festival. The way things are going at the moment it might be my best result.
As for the announcement itself it is probably the most stupid decision since someone took on Danny Mullins as their retained jockey.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.