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Just to be pedantic, Neil, I believe to be an ‘official’ religion, a following must record a certain figure of disciples (80,000 rings a bell) in a census. IIRC, there was such a stunt pulled in 2001 to try and make Jedi a ‘real’ religion (just like Pinocchio wanted to be a ‘real boy’).
But ultimately I agree that your point is a valid one. The traditional British school holiday system based aroud Christian holidays should be kept IMO, through convenience more than anything else.
Gray, i only mentioned Halloween as it’s a British tradition. So when non believers call for the end of religous based holidays, they basically want an end to the Christmas holiday. To me that’s similar to just cancelling halloween, as canceling any of these events is a stain on Western culture.
I don’t think I was suggesting cancelling Halloween; rather, I was casting doubt on its eligibility to be observed as A N Other Religious Holiday ubiquitously. Being derived from the
samhain
festival as far as it’s been derived from anything, maybe only those still observing Gaelic, Brythonic, Celtic, etc. faiths could rightfully lay claim to it holding enough cultural or religious significance to be worthy of a holiday.
Gray, i also don’t think plumeting figures in religous ceremonial attendances adds credibility to the calls to end religous based holidays. A lot of non believers enjoy the Christian stories during the festival period.
But without the faith, stories is exactly all they’re relegated to being, surely? Imbued with no greater deeper significance (for which read: above and beyond entertainment) to the reader / viewer than whatever well-loved film I may pick off my DVD rack any second now.
Christianity also has a deep impact in the way Britain is today with great historical relevance. I don’t think it should ever be forgotten. And i say this as someone who isn’t much of a believer at this moment in time.
I suppose that boils down to whether the individual regards Christian morals as being indistinct from morals per se – whether it’s possible, say, to be good and virtuous without the influence of some law / guidance ultimately traced back to Biblical instruction. I remain to be wholly convinced possibly more than the next man, but possibly rather less than the one after that.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
I think the story is a much-ado-about-nothing .. let them have as many holidays as they like, the odd day here and there doesn’t really matter. I think they should extend it to everyone in the land, a few extra days here wouldn’t go amiss.
From a white Christian wanting another couple of Bank Holidays ..
But without the faith, stories is exactly all they’re relegated to being, surely? Imbued with no greater deeper significance (for which read: above and beyond entertainment) to the reader / viewer than whatever well-loved film I may pick off my DVD rack any second now.
"GraemeTheDonkey":2bwrehx7 wrote:
Yes all they would be are stories. But these stories helped shape Britain as an Island, and shouldn’t vanish into the air as if it never existed.
I suppose that boils down to whether the individual regards Christian morals as being indistinct from morals per se – whether it’s possible, say, to be good and virtuous without the influence of some law / guidance ultimately traced back to Biblical instruction. I remain to be wholly convinced possibly more than the next man, but possibly rather less than the one after that.
gc
I haven’t said anything about the bible being a fundamental part of our moral fibre as people, i believe it boils down to evolution. Much in the same way i never called for a Halloween holiday.
My key point is that Christianity is a part of how we live with regards to historical relevance, not a moral one.
And people wonder why the BNP are winning support.
Here’s an article by Rod Liddle from The Spectator “Coffee Shop” blog.Time for a quick update on what the Muslim savages are up to. Here’s a story from today’s Daily Mail, with a cut-out-keep picture, of Somali Muslim savages stoning to (death) a twenty year old woman for the crime of adultery.
Last year they killed a thirteen year old girl in a similar fashion; seven Muslim states stone women to death for adultery, and they will even provide the stones for you, which is thoughtful. Eleven will chop your head off if you renounce the Muslim faith. The overwhelming majority of Islamic states will either kill you, send you to work in a labour camp, put you in prison or fine you if you are gay. Bugger someone adulterously in Somalia while calling a Mohammed a gimp and you’re REALLY in trouble, I suppose. I know you know all this, but it is worth reminding ourselves of it from time to time.Incidentally, many Somalis have come to Britain as immigrants recently, where they are widely admired for their strong work ethic, respect for the law and keen, piercing, intelligence.
Rod goes on to give this illuminating statistic:-
“…the unemployment rates among Somalis in this country is 87 per cent; one in three who have been here for more than a year have criminal convictions.”
So Labour’s open-door immigration policy hasn’t been a success then? Or, maybe, because those Somalis that can and do vote will probably vote Labour, Brown, Straw & co. think it IS a success.- Total Posts 17716
Whoever this Sharia bird is, I don’t want her bringing stoning and head chopping into our government.
I notice he says ”here’s a story from today’s Daily Mail”…
The Mail must be in a right pickle, usually so anti-gay themselves they now resort to using that phenomena to further their anti-Islam message. I find this happening amongst a number of groups. I expect the BNP will be down that road too before long.
Do you honestly think that America, Russia, France, Germany and Israel to name but a few, would tolerate a UK run by Sharia Law?
get a grip….christ. Insomniac darling…go and have a nice cup of tea and a lay down.
Many thanks for your considerate advice Ms Mare.
Nonetheless articles such as this taken in conjunction with our governments’ deceit over immigration should make you want, at least, a determined effort to end the easy access of immigrants with a "religion"/belief/attitude totally alien (and dangerous)to Britain and the British.
There is BAD news out there, there are BAD people and BAD religions. Why TF has our politically correct, right-on, lying government not woken up to this.
The fact that the article was published in the Daily Mail does not, of itself make it untrue, any more than if it had been published in the Daily Mirror. The woman still got murdered.
Have a butchers at this article from the New Statesman (about as far removed from your idea of what the Daily Mail represents as you can get)
http://www.newstatesman.com/human-rights/2009/11/sexual-gay-uganda-bill-person
We simply should not allow Islamic immigrants from such states as Somalia into this country. (Although our further subservience to the undemocratic EUs’ ways may stop us acting independently over immigration.) But maybe you’re happy with that?
(I take it you don’t live in Blackburn or Bradford.)
Our governments’ blind refusal to acknowledge that some aspects of Islam are evil has helped fuel the rise of the BNP. What a testimony to our political rulers stupidity.Cavelino Rampante asks:- Bad Religions. Care to name them?
Quite happily. The religion that says young girls should have their clitoris’ (what’s the plural? Clitoreaux?) mutilated.
The religion that says women should not be allowed education or to show any of their flesh apart from a little bit of their faces.
The religion that says adulterers should be stoned. Or that says Homosexuality is a crime punishable by death/. Or the one that says women who accuse a man of raping them must find 4 male witnesses to verify that they were raped or else they’re for the chop.
The religion that says it’s okay – nay, a good thing, to murder apostates., kafirs/non-muslims or muslims of a different variety.
One might ask if Scientology is bad.
Catholocism and Protestantism haven’t exactly got a blemish-free record.
Cavelino, your question suggests you automatically think anythink that is called a "religion" must automatically be good. I’m sure you’re not so naive as to think that.Happy. It is not racist to be anti Islam. (Or more accurately in my case, anti Islamic fundamentalism). Many Muslisms are anti-Islamic fundamentalists. Perhaps they might be inclined to voice their opposition to it if their Anglo-Saxon peers had the backbone to call it for what it is instead of, Jack Straw-like, believing all religions are above reproach..
Islam is NOT a race, therefore to be anti Islamic is not to be racist. Splitting hairs you may say, but nonetheless, whilst you might deplore my anti-Islamic fundamentalist stance, it is not RACIST to express such an opinion. (If I said I disliked all Celts or Eskimos – that would be nearer to being RACIST).
To say that those opposed to the admittance of nationals from countries where Islamic fundamentalism prevails (unless escaping from such fundamentalism) is a cloak for racism is, at best, naive. You yourself go on to say that certain types of people with certain views should not gain admittance. Please have the courage to say that many (perhaps most) unsuitable immigrants are unsuitable because of their religious beliefs. The wishy-washy attitude of politicians (and the public) being too scared to say that fundamentalist Islam is evil, barbaric and downright bad does nobody any favours, least of all the many excellent British Muslims who hate the dark-age beliefs of the fundamentalists.I currently live in Saudi Arabia which has shariah law in force. It is absolutely ridiculous and one can see quite clearly that having shariah law here (no other law) is going to put these people back into the desert once the oil runs out. However I think that they are too used to their air conditioning and landcruisers and inevitably their population has grown beyond what their future resources can sustain.
The people outnhere have no respect for other religions out here at all. The fine for killing a muslim woman is 50,000 riyals (about 9,000 pounds), the fine for killing a muslim man is 100,000 riyals, the fine for killing anyone else from other religions, non existant.
If you see a road accident you are advised to drive on, even if you see a child in need of first aid. If they die you pay the blood money, if they survive you have interfered with the will of allah.
Who would invest in britain if they had 5 prayer times programmed in everyday, each lasting about an hour whereby the whole country comes to a stand still.
Shariah Law is ruining this country, and the educated people want rid of it here but they cant get rid of it because there are so many backward people here, including al qaida and the mutawa. They certainly dont need it in britain.
Fair enough Happy. Nonetheless you advance criteria for not allowing some people to stay here. All I’m advocating is that people with certain religious views (that’s not racist), ie. those whose beliefs advocate female genital mutilation, stoning adulterers/gays, the oppression of females etc. etc. shouldn’t be allowed in in the first place.
(Thanks for the interesting post Bulwark.)
All I’m advocating is that people with certain religious views (that’s not racist), ie. those whose beliefs advocate female genital mutilation, stoning adulterers/gays, the oppression of females etc. etc. shouldn’t be allowed in in the first place.
I’d agree, however that statement is a long way from the title you put on this thread which is frankly ridiculous.
You have Muslims and cultural interpretation of Islam all mixed up, insomniac.
Put down that Liddle one track garbage and get to know a few Muslims if your that worried. A far more edifying experience.
Guaranteed.
Cavelino Rampante. You wrote:-
…statement is a long way from the title you put on this thread which is frankly ridiculous.
What on earth are you on about? You’ve been a contributor on this forum long enough to know full well that, a high number of threads diverge from the original. (Take a look at the "global warming" discussion in the Lounge.) Besides, I’ve merely responded to comment made about immigration/racism. So, if I’ve diverged from the original topic, it’s because others have led me there. Even so, I’m amazed that you even made such a comment in the first place.
You have Muslims and cultural interpretation of Islam all mixed up, insomniac.
Put down that Liddle one track garbage and get to know a few Muslims if your that worried. A far more edifying experience.
Guaranteed.We will have to disagree on whether or not my "cultural interpration" of Islam is "all mixed up". I would point out though, perhaps because I never made it clearly enough in earlier posts, or maybe you’d not realised I’d written it that, I am not opposed to all strains of Islam. Only those that practice the more extreme varieties. And I’ve worked with Muslims in the past who are as anti the loony Islamo-fanatics as I am – and are sick to the back teeth with those in our press and political classes who appease them. (I don’t work with any now though.)
(Although, once again Cavelino, I’m a little at a loss as to why you believe that getting to know a few Muslims would alter the opinions I’ve voiced here. I’ve never slagged off those Muslims who don’t belong to the loony wing- as I;ve just stated. I don’t currently work with, or know, any North Koreans. Should that invalidate my opinion that I don’t want to live there?)
Nonetheless, I’m glad that you’ve voiced an opinion, even if I may disagree with it; that’s one of the beauties of free-speech. (Something Salman Rushdie wishes some of the loony Islamists that I’ve criticised here would embrace – and I rather suspect he knows more Muslims than either of us!)Cavelino Rampante asks:- Bad Religions. Care to name them?
Quite happily. The religion that says young girls should have their clitoris’ (what’s the plural? Clitoreaux?) mutilated.
The religion that says women should not be allowed education or to show any of their flesh apart from a little bit of their faces.
The religion that says adulterers should be stoned. Or that says Homosexuality is a crime punishable by death/. Or the one that says women who accuse a man of raping them must find 4 male witnesses to verify that they were raped or else they’re for the chop.
The religion that says it’s okay – nay, a good thing, to murder apostates., kafirs/non-muslims or muslims of a different variety.Is it the Wee Free?
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