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do you think that all cultures/creeds/ways-of-life are equal?
Depends, Insomniac, on the criteria you are measuring them on. I’d guess there are aspects of most cultures which can be judged as superior or inferior to others. I’d suggest it is difficult, if not impossible, to judge one culture, as a whole, against another. Certainly not in any kind of objective manner.
Anthonycutt wrote …Until then, if you’re not going to say anything constructive (and all evidence suggests that you’re not), shut up.
All evidence suggests???? Anthonycutt, do you happen to work for the Intelligence Services…..writing reports on Sadaam’s secret stash of WMD in Iraq??!!
As for the suggestion that I have nothing constructive to say on the matter. I do believe my original post, albeit brief, was a perfect example of providing a clear and concise response to the anti-Muslim brigade. Game over. After all, why blurt on for dozens and dozens of lines when the truth of the argument can be contained in a nutshell.
Kalbeit brief, was a perfect example of providing a clear and concise response to the anti-Muslim brigade. Game over
It was nothing more than hand wringing left wing drivel with the underlying belief that others cannot live to the civilised standards we are accunstomed to in the west
Caliming that punishing rape victims is just "different" is the same as absovling responsibility on the basis that they "dont know any better" and cannot aspire to development in humanitarian terms. Rather like an animal that eats its own perhaps
In other words its Racism
All evidence suggests???? Anthonycutt, do you happen to work for the Intelligence Services…..writing reports on Sadaam’s secret stash of WMD in Iraq??!!
As for the suggestion that I have nothing constructive to say on the matter. I do believe my original post, albeit brief, was a perfect example of providing a clear and concise response to the anti-Muslim brigade. Game over. After all, why blurt on for dozens and dozens of lines when the truth of the argument can be contained in a nutshell.
KHmmm, hehehe, the ‘all evidence suggests’ line is something I overheard in a conversation yesterday & it made me chuckle.
I’m not one of the anti Muslim brigade by the way. My post about the aspirations of Bangladeshis would have been the same were all Bangladeshis Muslims, Christians, Scientologists or whatever. It’s not so much that some religions are worse than others or even that some cultures are worse than others; I think cases like this just go to show that some people are much bigger tossers than others.‘why blurt on for dozens and dozens of lines when the truth of the argument can be contained in a nutshell. ‘
Well, it’s hard to disagree with that statement, so I won’t.
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Does anyone else not find it rather strange that the ‘rape’ story didn’t come to light until after her newly-wed husband found out she was already pregnant…. or that the ‘rapist’ was pardoned?
Anthonycutt wrote….I think cases like this just go to show that some people are much bigger tossers than others.
You read my mind, Anthonycutt, you read my mind…
Perhaps the thread would have been better entitled "Are some forum members superior to others?"
The answer is clearly "NO!"….just that some appear to have a view of the World based on what they read in newspapers. Personally, I take no notice of anyone who is paid to write for a living.
KInsomniac,your conciliatory ( some might say licky) summary of people’s opinions on this matter is for me at odds with the crass arrogance and subsequent defence of the title of the thread that you started.
I think insomniac has made it clear that his use of the word "culture" was probably misplaced. An accusation of crass arrogance is therefore probably equally misplaced.
Also, it’s been my experience that insomniac has a position on many things which are contrary to my own, but he has an open mind too, and I’d say with 100% certainty that his responses were conciliatory, rather than the alternative description you gave.
Insomniac,your conciliatory ( some might say licky) summary of people’s opinions on this matter is for me at odds with the crass arrogance and subsequent defence of the title of the thread that you started.
I think insomniac has made it clear that his use of the word "culture" was probably misplaced. An accusation of crass arrogance is therefore probably equally misplaced.
Also, it’s been my experience that insomniac has a position on many things which are contrary to my own, but he has an open mind too, and I’d say with 100% certainty that his responses were conciliatory, rather than the alternative description you gave.
Not relevant really but as you’ve taken the trouble to post….
as a matter of fact Insomniac only qualified his use of the word culture AFTER I had described decribing one culture as superior to another as crass arrogance and that remains my opinion.Unless you can honestly answer the following question with a "YES", then you agree with the title of my thread:-
Q) Would you be happy for your daughter to live under Sharia Law?
Argue all you like about the faults in Western societies / what Islam has done for mankinds’ greater knowledge / how it’s wrong/impossible to make judgements between different cultures – and, if you’re really short of honest and intelligent argument, discuss the semantics of culture (a la B.W). BUT if you don’t answer yes to the above question, you in effect, agree with me.
Unless you can honestly answer the following question with a "YES", then you agree with the title of my thread:-
Q) Would you be happy for your daughter to live under Sharia Law?
Argue all you like about the faults in Western societies / what Islam has done for mankinds’ greater knowledge / how it’s wrong/impossible to make judgements between different cultures – and, if you’re really short of honest and intelligent argument, discuss the semantics of culture (a la B.W). BUT if you don’t answer yes to the above question, you in effect, agree with me.
I answered no to the above question & I still don’t agree with you.
While we’re at it, perhaps you could answer this question:
‘Would you be happy for the criminal justice system to be run by the principals of Sharia Law?’
Many people in this country would say yes. Which just goes to prove what an ass British culture really is.
By ANdrew Gilligan in the Sunday Telegraph
A Labour minister says his party has been infiltrated by a fundamentalist Muslim group that wants to create an “Islamic social and political order” in Britain.
The Islamic Forum of Europe (IFE) — which believes in jihad and sharia law, and wants to turn Britain and Europe into an Islamic state — has placed sympathisers in elected office and claims, correctly, to be able to achieve “mass mobilisation” of voters.
Speaking to The Sunday Telegraph, Jim Fitzpatrick, the Environment Minister, said the IFE had become, in effect, a secret party within Labour and other political parties.
“They are acting almost as an entryist organisation, placing people within the political parties, recruiting members to those political parties, trying to get individuals selected and elected so they can exercise political influence and power, whether it’s at local government level or national level,” he said.
“They are completely at odds with Labour’s programme, with our support for secularism.”
Mr Fitzpatrick, the MP for Poplar and Canning Town, said the IFE had infiltrated and “corrupted” his party in east London in the same way that the far-Left Militant Tendency did in the 1980s. Leaked Labour lists show a 110 per cent rise in party membership in one constituency in two yearsIn a six-month investigation by this newspaper and Channel 4’s Dispatches, involving weeks of covert filming by the programme’s reporters:
* IFE activists boasted to the undercover reporters that they had already “consolidated … a lot of influence and power” over Tower Hamlets, a London borough council with a £1 billion budget.
* We have established that the group and its allies were awarded more than £10 million of taxpayers’ money, much of it from government funds designed to “prevent violent extremism”.
* IFE leaders were recorded expressing opposition to democracy, support for sharia law or mocking black people. The IFE organised meetings with extremists, including Taliban allies, a man named by the US government as an “unindicted co-conspirator” in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, and a man under investigation by the FBI for his links to the September 11 attacks.
* Moderate Muslims in London told how the IFE and its allies were enforcing their hardline views on the rest of the local community, curbing behaviour they deemed “un-Islamic”. The owner of a dating agency received a threatening email from an IFE activist, warning her to close it.
* George Galloway, a London MP, admitted in recordings obtained by this newspaper that his surprise victory in the 2005 election owed more to the IFE “than it would be wise – for them – for me to say, adding that they played a “decisive role” in his triumph at the polls.
Mr Galloway now says they were one of many groups which supported his anti-war stance and had never sought to influence him.
The IFE has particularly close links to Tower Hamlets council. Seven serving and former councillors said Lutfur Rahman, the current council leader, gained his post with the group’s help.
Some said they were canvassed by a senior IFE official on his behalf. After Mr Rahman was elected, a man with close links to the group, Lutfur Ali, was appointed assistant chief executive of the council with responsibility for grant funding
This was despite a chequered employment record, a misleading CV and a negative report from the headhunters appointed to consider the candidates. The council’s white chief executive was subsequently forced from his post.
Since Mr Rahman became leader, more council grants have been paid to a number of organisations which our investigation established are closely linked to the IFE.
Funding for other, secular groups was ended or cut. In the borough’s well-known Brick Lane area, council funds were switched from a largely secular heritage trail to a highly controversial “hijab sculpture”, angering many residents who accused the council of “religious triumphalism”.
Schools in Tower Hamlets are told by the council should close for the Muslim festival of Eid, even where most of their pupils are not Muslim.
Mr Rahman refused to deny that an IFE activist had canvassed councillors on his behalf. He said: “There are various people across Tower Hamlets who get excited, who get involved.”
He would not comment on concerns about infiltration, saying they were “party matters”. He said: “If you look at our flagship policies, like investing £20 million to tackle overcrowding, you can see that we are working for everyone.”
The IFE said it did not seek to influence the council and had not lobbied for Mr Rahman. “If anything, existing members of the Labour Party have joined the IFE, rather than the other way round,” it said.
The group insisted it was not a fundamentalist or extremist organisation and did not support violence.I could’ve told everyone this ages ago but no-one would’ve listened I’d have just got the "racist" nonsense which is an easy and automatic attack from anyone that does not see what politicians have done to and are continuing to do to this country.
The UK will be an Islamic country within the next thirty or forty years unless the tide of immigration is not only halted but to an extent also reversed.
There is only one party that will do this (BNP) the others aren’t interested in anything but the EU and fethering their own nests they know exactly what they are doing to the UK none of it is by accident.
Of course they control the media, the press and the education system and people have been drip fed lies and to be frank utter rubbish day in, day out for years and years now. If you are told something every day by enough people unless you are extremely strong minded you are going to end up believing it.
There is no longer any difference between Tory and Labour they are all marxists. Thirty years ago Labour and Tory detested each other now they sing from the same hymn sheets, democracy is dead in the UK and everyone is "sick and evil" unless they agree with globalisation and a fully integrated world which can never peacefully exist because the fundamentals of Islam is totally opposite to the freedom of the Western World. Women fought for freedom and equality, god help them in thirty to forty years time they will wonder why they bothered.
I could’ve told everyone this ages ago but no-one would’ve listened I’d have just got the "racist" nonsense which is an easy and automatic attack from anyone that does not see what politicians have done to and are continuing to do to this country.
The UK will be an Islamic country within the next thirty or forty years unless the tide of immigration is not only halted but to an extent also reversed.
There is only one party that will do this (BNP) the others aren’t interested in anything but the EU and fethering their own nests they know exactly what they are doing to the UK none of it is by accident.
Of course they control the media, the press and the education system and people have been drip fed lies and to be frank utter rubbish day in, day out for years and years now. If you are told something every day by enough people unless you are extremely strong minded you are going to end up believing it.
There is no longer any difference between Tory and Labour they are all marxists. Thirty years ago Labour and Tory detested each other now they sing from the same hymn sheets, democracy is dead in the UK and everyone is "sick and evil" unless they agree with globalisation and a fully integrated world which can never peacefully exist because the fundamentals of Islam is totally opposite to the freedom of the Western World. Women fought for freedom and equality, god help them in thirty to forty years time they will wonder why they bothered.
Why does the BNP also rail against Hindus, Sikhs, Eastern Europeans and any other immigrant group, none of which have any intention of creating an Islamic theocracy?
I could’ve told everyone this ages ago but no-one would’ve listened I’d have just got the "racist" nonsense which is an easy and automatic attack from anyone that does not see what politicians have done to and are continuing to do to this country.
The UK will be an Islamic country within the next thirty or forty years unless the tide of immigration is not only halted but to an extent also reversed.
There is only one party that will do this (BNP) the others aren’t interested in anything but the EU and fethering their own nests they know exactly what they are doing to the UK none of it is by accident.
Of course they control the media, the press and the education system and people have been drip fed lies and to be frank utter rubbish day in, day out for years and years now. If you are told something every day by enough people unless you are extremely strong minded you are going to end up believing it.
There is no longer any difference between Tory and Labour they are all marxists. Thirty years ago Labour and Tory detested each other now they sing from the same hymn sheets, democracy is dead in the UK and everyone is "sick and evil" unless they agree with globalisation and a fully integrated world which can never peacefully exist because the fundamentals of Islam is totally opposite to the freedom of the Western World. Women fought for freedom and equality, god help them in thirty to forty years time they will wonder why they bothered.
Why does the BNP also rail against Hindus, Sikhs, Eastern Europeans and any other immigrant group, none of which have any intention of creating an Islamic theocracy?
They don’t not entirely anyway.
Lets be clear about something I am no BNP member or activist or anything like that. Just making that point before anyone suggests as much.
The "main" parties hate the BNP and they will do anything to stop them but the reason for this isn’t because of race its because the BNP are totally opposite in that they are nationalists as opposed to "internationalists" and of course they will pull Britain completely out of the EU. Labour / Tory know that the more power the BNP get the more the BNP will uncover the lies, deception and corruption that has been rife within the establishment for years. There will be a number of politicians past and present that will face trial and end up in prison. If you listen to what the BNP say this is evident. BNP researchers have already come up against a brick wall in trying to gain access to certain EU files that they wanted to view.
The BNP actually have an alliance with Sikhs so the popular notion that the BNP hate everything non white English is total nonsense as is it that everyone non white English would be shipped out of the country. If you read their policies (and I read every partys policies) it is clearly stated that there will be a voluntary repatriation policy employed (which has infact been in place since the early 1970’s but never used) and all illegals and criminal immigrents would automatically be deported. Other "foreigners" are welcome to remain in the UK regardles of creed or colour as long as the accept the ways and laws of the UK.
The BNP believe (as I do) that the indigenous population of a native homeland have an automatic right to be the majority peoples in their own land. There is nothing wrong with this despite the bleatings of the left wing. Infact the United Nations laws (which have been totally ignored) cite the right of the indigenous people of a homeland to live together under their own laws and within their own culture and to be the prominant peoples in their own land. Not surprisingly this isn’t common knowledge.
British people are going to have to make a choice Freedom or Islam that is the bottom line burying heads in the sand won’t make the issue go away and anyone that says "it won’t / can’t happen" I’m afraid is doing exactly that. As much as anything when there are as many Islamics in the UK as there are "English" they can democratically vote for whatever they like and that is providing they don’t already have things changed from within and as they are leaking into not only the Labour party but Conservatives also it doesn’t take a great deal of immagination to work out the dangers.
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