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Isn’t “Islam” too wide-ranging a target, insomniac?
Shouldn’t it more accurately be “Islam as practiced by a collection of poorly-educated misogynist wankers, in a tiny backwater of a piss-poor country“?
If we are to condemn an entire religion, based on the practices of infinitessimally tiny minority claiming to speak for their God, then Dubya and Blair are surely similarly culpable of bringing Christianity into disrepute, no?
There are about 1 billion Muslim’s on the planet, lollys mate. It is self-evidently a tiny majority of toothless hicks who conduct these trials and hand down such sentences.
Besides, I’m not discussing the rights and wrongs of the punishment meted out to this poor girl. It is obviously abhorrent to anyone who isn’t an ill-educated, misogynist ******.
I’m merely questioning the assertion that such stories are a) representative of an entire religion, and b) if they are, does that make Islam inherently inferior to Christianity (which has followers of it’s own who prosecute wars).
I’m not even offering an opposing point of view to insomniac – I’m just asking the question in my usual, informed, dispassionate way.
So. Out of this billion, how many (can we have a figure) would you say are the minority?
No bluffing now!
How many are the minority?I think anyone under the illusion that ‘our culture’ is somehow superior to any other culture need only refer back to last week and the horrific case involving the two young boys who tortured their victims in an appalling act of violence.
Lolly’s Mate – I don’t think you are racist, just ill-informed and clearly unable to comprehend any other point of view or philosophical position than your own. Thankfully YOU are the one in the minority.
Well of course it’s true Grasshopper that within Islam those who go in for this extreme behaviour are in a minority. (But maybe in some parts of the muslim world not THAT small a minority.) Yet I’d suggest that, even further up the "civilised" Islamic ladder, there are many seriously held beliefs that place them in the nutcase bracket.
Maybe most of those Muzzies that think women should wear the burqa wouldn’t mete out punishment to a rape victim like those in the article I posted, yet their attitude to women(arranged marriages etc.) / gays still IMO makes their "culture" inferior to that of the west.
What really irks me is the reluctance of our politicians and media to state the bleedin’ obvious for fear of causing offence.
The likes of Ken Livingstone and Harriet Harman and Jack Straw seem to go out of their way not to offend our muslim brothers, yet much of Islam preaches attitudes that should be anathema to them.
Whilst our society/culture has its failings (drunkenness / violence / pornography etc.) those things aren’t enshrined in our laws. Islams subjugation of women, for the most part, is. When will such as Harriet Harman stand up for her muslim sisters?PS Just read you post Cormack. Nowhere in our law or in the christian faiths is cruelty to children condoned; that some evil people (of whatever age) do such acts is not a sign that our way of life is wrong. Indeed the perpertrators were prosecuted. Compare that with the Islamic treatment of the rapist.
Bit harsh corm.
I am far from ill informed. Yes, i have a strong ppint of view, and i stand by it.
For the record, not all muslims are bad, but there are a lot that want to change the way things are. And they will!
I might be the minority in this forum, for whatever reason, but i dont think i am a minority outside of this forum.
Deffinitly not a minority where i live.Like I said, insomniac – I wasn’t offering an opposing view. I agree with pretty-much everything in your last post. If it’s a choice between Western cutlure and Islam, I will opt for Western Culture 100% of the time – despite (perhaps even because of) it’s pornography.
Perhaps the lack of access to pornography is part of Islam’s problem? If I’d had to live a chaste life until my early-20’s – only to be married off to some bint you’re not even sure will give you a blowie – then I might very well have gone mad enough to fly a plane into a building.
I’m reminded of the Hick’s routine about centrefolds in the Bible. I’d suggest something similar in the Quran might be beneficial, but won’t for reasons of taste…..and not wanting an angry mob lobbing hot pineapples at me on the bus.
….and not wanting an angry mob lobbing hot pineapples at me on the bus.
I wouldn’t worry to much GH. If it’s posted on here it’ll be Corm getting the Fatwa
I remember a day when the Quran was called the Koran in the UK.
Sorry, I digress…
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Pete – I’ll just claim, when the doorbell rings, that I post under the name Grasshopper, tell them they’ve got the wrong man, and direct them in the general direction of Leith.
Western liberal demoocracy (if that is what we are refering to) is undoubtably superior to other systems (rather than cultures perhaps)
A basic appreciation of human rights endorses that. it doesnt need explaining
western countries will often get things horribly wrong but freedom of expresion, freedom of the judiciary, freedom from religous dogma is something that has to be valued
Cormack …the difference is clearly that the punishment meeted out to the rape victim is endorsed and implemented by the ruling system whereas what happened in doncaster clearly isnt.
If islam doesnt wanted to be branded as completely medieval and backward then perhaps a little bit of obvious disgust and opposition to these disgusting abuses would convince a few more people that it is silently endorsed?
Islam bangs on about how it is stateless and so on, but wheres the "not in our name" abhorrance at these and other vile "punishments". wheres the opposition to the hanging of those on the basis of sexuality by one of the biggest islamic states? Wheres the call for womens rights ? Who speaks up for the freedom to renounce their belief without a death sentence? Who speaks up to say that novelists and cartoonists (lets think about that a moment…novelists and cartoonists….) whould not be executed? For one the supposedly moderate leader of british muslims for one called for rushdies death.
i prefer the culture on a year old yoghort to what they have to offer
b) if they are, does that make Islam inherently inferior to Christianity (which has followers of it’s own who prosecute wars).
as if muslims have never fought. Sudans genocide agaisnt christians perhaps?
the bulk of christians beliefs are not for me, but if you took the middle point oif christians views worldwide and compared it with the middle point of islams, then there would be a striking difference
Wahabbism as practiced in Saudi Arabia != mainstream Islam as practiced in Turkey, Indonesia, the Balkans, Malaysia, the United States, etc. It’s like judging every single Christian based on the beliefs of the fring Evangelicals.
While we’re on about systems, it should be noted that Bangladesh is governed by a secular constitution and fatwa punishments are illegal there. A percentage of parliamentary seats are reserved for women, the Prime Minister of the country is female.
I can’t imagine where Happy and Lolly’s Mate live and I can’t see what that has got to do with the frankly silly and pointless IMO subject of this thread…….What has a story about Muslim fundamentalism on the other side of the world got to do with where they live…..are we back on the Sharia law on our doorstep kick again ( double yawn
?IMO I don’t think we should fight shy of the racism description where we sincerely feel that applies and I strongly sense it in threads and posts like these that make silly generalising points by quoting selective examples and using arrogant terms like superiority.
Cultures ( whatever they are) are different things to different people and where you can define them they are different to each other,not superior or inferior….just different.
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