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If it’s run at a dawdle Harrry Findlay will hang PN from the nearest lampost.
You won’t be neeeding the Listener, what you need is a jockey who is a good judge of pace and Sam Thomas is very capable.
No worries for me on that score.
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The Listener wouldn’t stay the Gold Cup trip on a bus, and the RyanAir has no bearing on his absence, imo.
double decker or single decker?
seriously it would be nuts to run him when he can go elsewhere and win. I like the horse but he has his limits and 3 miles on an easier track is one of them IMO.
If you look at the Ryanair field I don’t think I can find a horse who could win the gold cup in an average year…old vic and the listener wont stay and mossbank unless he keeps improving doesnt look good enough at the moment.
The Ryanair has given us some cracking races so i think it has been a succes thus far.
What I don’t like about the new look festival is the Fred Winter juvenile and the Jewson. Cheltenham was always about class and/or specialists and for me neither of these offer this. Triumph and Sun alliance, bar a few runners, is full of future hadicappers
Particularly a problem is the positioning of the Jewson. Cheltenham always has champion races 1-3 on each of the days and this allows for explosive action. However everytime the Jewson has been run there has been a muted sound around Cheltenham with the winner barely getting applauded on the walk back. It really is a bad start todays racing and doesn’t give the cheltenham feel at all.
I would alomost suggest moving the new mares race to the first race on the Thursday and the jewwon to Friday evening. Though this would create its own problem of having 4 chase races on the friday evening – which bad ground would not be able to withstand
The Ryanair does have its’ place IMO, as it is a godsend for horses that can’t quite stay the stiff 3m2f of the Gold Cup. How many have we seen in recent years? Florida Pearl, One Man & Wayward Lad in the last 20 years alone spring immediately to mind as horses with the ability to win top-class 3 mile races that just could not get up the hill. Our Vic & The Listener nowadays fit into that category as well, but both couldn’t get round 3m2 before sunset.
The Ryanair does take horses away from the GC, but if there exists a horse with the requisite class and stamina for the Gold Cup, rest assured that horse will run in the Gold Cup and not the Ryanair.
I’m still not convinced. To say The Listener doesn’t stay is ludicrous. He’s by Roselier out of a Strong Gale mare, of course he will stay 3m 2f. His brother won the William Hill at the Festival and his half brother Distant Thunder almost did the same last year.
Last year’s race wasn’t run to suit and he doesn’t have the finishing speed to cope with the likes of Kauto Star at the end of a slowly run race. He is a relentless galloper and needs to gallop the speed out of his rivals, which I believe he can do with KS but maybe Denman is a stronger galloper than him.
It also doesn’t explain why we were denied the chance to see BJK, Denman & Nicanor in the same race. My point is that some of the new races DO mean that some horses can sidestep a race for what is believed to be a much easier option and surely that is not what we want in our version of the Olympics. That would be like having a 600m race allowing those who didn’t quite last 800m but weren’t quite quick enough for 400m the chance to win a Gold Medal, which I think is wrong. Why change something to pander to a few. And the distance of the Ryanair, 2m 5f. Well I thought the race was designed to be a championship for 2m 4f horses. A furlong can make ALL the difference in a race especially with an uphill finish so the race is not what it claims to be. Our Vic can stay perfectly well in a Reynoldstown over 3m and a Charlie Hall over 3m 1f, The Listener can stay perfectly well over 3m at Puncestown and Leopardstown which has a equally stiff uphill finish and 3m 1f at Sandown. I want to see Kauto Star and Denman take on the best 3 mile chasers we have to offer.
Can only agree with most of the above comments. the Ryanair (pity about the sponsors…vile company) now has its place. It may be that we will have a year with rather too small uncompetitive fields in the three big chases, but no sign of that just yet
Im quite happy with the 4 days festival now. There is slightly less of a crush if attending ( it was chronic a few years back) and thinking back, the 3 days did seem a bit crammed. Most of the new races have fitted in ok
But the Festival doesn’t now answer all of the questions we want answered. We were still left wondering who was better out of BJK and Nicanor. I think we may well know now but it wasn’t decided at Prestbury Park. We may still not find out who is truly better out of Kauto and Denman (who knows Neptune or Halcon may have a say) as who is going to dictate the pace of the race now that The Listener is going for the Ryanair? I want to know if KS will truly stay 3m 2f in a fastly run Gold Cup.
Is anyone looking forward to the Gold Cup the most out of all the races this year? I know I’m not.
I’m still not convinced. To say The Listener doesn’t stay is ludicrous. He’s by Roselier out of a Strong Gale mare, of course he will stay 3m 2f.
That’s the worst argument I’ve heard in a long, long time for why he will ‘of course’ stay. Breeding is a guide to the relative staying ability of horses, not an absolute indicator.
I think it’s been proven that the Listener will not stay 3m2f at Cheltenham, and his staying ability is best viewed in the way Beef Or Salmon ground him down last season in Ireland.
The Listener’s best performances come between 2m4 – 3m on a relatively flat track with give in the ground. He will not encounter any of these conditions in the Gold Cup.
I’m still not convinced. To say The Listener doesn’t stay is ludicrous. He’s by Roselier out of a Strong Gale mare, of course he will stay 3m 2f.
That’s the worst argument I’ve heard in a long, long time for why he will ‘of course’ stay. Breeding is a guide to the relative staying ability of horses, not an absolute indicator.
Darly Jacob also said his best trip is 2mile 4 to 2mile 6
We may still not find out who is truly better out of Kauto and Denman (who knows Neptune or Halcon may have a say) as who is going to dictate the pace of the race now that The Listener is going for the Ryanair?
This doesnt make sense to me at all. Denman will surely set a decent pace.
But on the wider point, surely the added attraction of what is becoming a nice race rewarding first class chasers that fall between the two distances more than counters the possible loss of the occasional doomed front runner?
The way it was framed before was the equivalent of having a 6f and 1m 4f championship on the flat…and nothing in between
This doesnt make sense to me at all. Denman will surely set a decent pace.
What’s even more disturbing is that it’s been several days since I didn’t agree verbatim with one of clivex’s posts.
If that’s the worst argument you have ever heard then I must sadly question your ability to tell the truth. I suspect you have heard far worse if you are completely truthful to both me and indeed yourself.
Wasn’t Andrew Thornton jocked off The Listener for his ride on him at Sandown behind Star De Mohaison for not dictating the pace of the race. He stayed on up the Sandown hill ok to my eye. He’s won twice around the undulations of Leopardstown.
He has run once over 3m 2f and you are basing your theory on whether he stays that distance on that run and a completley different race where he was overhauled on bottomless ground, yet he has come out since and won over same course and distance.
I think I can safely say based on his pedigree that he can and will stay 3m 2f. The same theory was used when Royal Emperor was an unlucky 3rd over 4m 1f at Ayr, his brother winning over 4m at Kelso. The same theory was employed with Tipsy Mouse winner over 4m like his brother Royal Athlete. I could go on but apparently it is a non-sensical argument which is why the bloodstock industry is worth so little!
Distant Thunder, Fork Lightning, Offshore Account and Moving Earth all related to The Listener tell me that he will stay. I believe it and I guess that’s all that matters.
That’s as maybe, Kendal.
But nevertheless, the assertion that we need The Listener to ensure a true pace in the Gold Cup, and that this is the only way we can be certain which of Kauto Star or Denman is superior?………….it’s utter balls, I’m afraid.
Kendal…
Breeding does not ‘of course’ determine whether a horse stays or not. It is, at best, an indicator.
Your argument is flimsy because of the above assertion.
If you can’t understand that rather obvious concept, then … .
Well if you want a throw back to the Arkle/Mill House Gold Cups fair enough with two who frighten everything else off except two or three no hopers who are along for a jolly. That’s not my idea of a great race and if another race is taking participants away from the Gold Cup then personally, and it’s only an opinion, I don’t think that’s healthy for the future of the so called Blue Ribband.
Imagine if they both came down and one of Fergus Wilson’s won. Now that would be fantastic!!!
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