August 29, 2007 at 09:33 #4960dave jayMember
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In Cubone’s blog he talks about the new gambling act which will come into force soon and the implications it will have for on-course betting.
Will it actually make a difference if there were no independant on-course bookies. I remember reading a while ago that there were big problems filling the forms in too get a licence and then there was the debcle the the pitches weren’t going to be worth very much. I thought at the time that they were just being old fashion and haven’t quite caught onto the box ticking and forming filling in, that goes along with the being a part of the modern world.
But cubone argues that these changes will ultimately lead to less choice for punters and the ruination of on-course betting and the re-indroduction of betting tax by stealth.
No-one can really know what will happen over time but he’s more likely to be right than he is wrong, in my book and I don’t know what the end game will be for us punters. Do we need on-course bookies ?August 29, 2007 at 11:42 #112900GrasshopperParticipant
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I’d say yes, Davros – on the assumption that some will still be prepared to adopt a position, and not robotically price their board based on what the pitch next door is doing.
Maybe the problem is a lack of on-course bookies who are prepared to hold an opinion?August 29, 2007 at 14:21 #112918
Dave, the racecourses need bookmakers to provide some atmosphere and a sense of a dynamic market on course.
The real point is the betting industry does not need on course bookmakers. Let the on course guys do what they like to relieve the racegoers of their money but cut the link between on course and the SP system. We have a crazy situation where a small market on course dictates the odds and margins of a vast market off course and online.
The new rigged SP system and the long term manipulation of the market by the big three is scandalous and should be scrapped. The big three can have a horse returned at any price they choose by placing a few quid into the on course market with bookmakers prepared to accommodate them. Some of the on course bookmakers who rank highly in the mechanism for the rigged SP system are on a nice earner. They take bets and instructions form the reps, shorten the odds and then hedge into the exchanges for a good margin. All this to screw the SP punters. A nice little cartel!!!
Oh no I used the C word and this will no doubt prompt a multi page reply that we can’t understand!!!August 29, 2007 at 15:57 #112927davidbradyMember
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Surely an on-course bookies with opinions of his/her own is likely to get fleeced in the long run as they will only ever lay those horse which they are longest about.August 29, 2007 at 16:38 #112937yeatsParticipant
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Think racing could cope without them, after all they are just middlemen. Would like to see some sort of system of betting just with exchanges and the Tote. Somethings got be done about the ever decreasing prize money. Pity racing didn’t start an exchange when Betfair did, maybe it’s still possible.August 29, 2007 at 17:59 #112950
David, on the busy days there is enough mug money around in the rings for the bookmakers do decent business at decent margins. Quiet mid week meetings is a different story and yes they are there to be picked off by the arbers.
Cutting the link between the on course market and the SP system would require an industry SP comprising odds from bookmakers, exchanges and the Tote. This is a big ask but if firms like Blue Square are happy to offer their own odds the others could also.
The FSA seem to be able to deal with insider trading but the big three bookmakers do it every day.August 29, 2007 at 18:42 #112959dave jayMember
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I think we would have an industry SP now if the powers could think of a good reason to not include betfair in the return. Cubones article seems to suggest that this is what they are trying to achieve by the back door.August 29, 2007 at 22:46 #112977
An industry SP must include Betfair and Tote or it would be a cartel SP.August 29, 2007 at 23:48 #112982Maxilon 5Member
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Pity racing didn’t start an exchange when Betfair did, maybe it’s still possible.
A good idea, Yeats. Innovative and thought provoking. Anyone with the interest of horse racing at heart would be a shoo in to join.August 30, 2007 at 08:43 #112999ArtemisParticipant
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It would be very easy indeed to devise a fair method of returning an SP which is proportionate to the number of runners and the strength of the market. All it requires is input from the course, the Tote and the exchanges. The rest is simple maths. But it won’t happen. There is absolutely no advantage to the bookmaking industry in supporting a fair SP system and the government does not have the will to intervene in this monopolistic market. The SP punter is well and truly screwed compared to pre- November 2006, even though they are probably better off than they were thirty years ago.
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