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One last thing from me on this topic. Obvoiously if a horse desperately needs the run or if there is some considerable doubt over the fitness of a horse etc it would be nice to be told. However, in the Bandari/Fight Your corner circumstance, not telling the punters who he feels will run the better, especially as there really didn’t seem to be much between them is not something to really complain about, surely even You can see that Ihal?
When people start to realise that trainers work for their owners not the general public it will make things much easier?<br> Johnny:no I dont forget Istabraq. He turned up and got injured. But like Aidan O’Brien said the whole year long the horse WOULD turn up for Cheltenham.Whats your point?<br> As for Hawk Wing and the July Cup with the sprinters around right now I dont think he would be out of place in the July Cup. I dont believe he will go for it(nor does O’Brien he just said he had the pace for a July Cup) but if he did I would’nt back against him.<br> As for Johnston(I have no problem what so ever with the man) he did actually say in the Racingpost that "he would’nt swap his two for anything else in the race including Aidan O’Brien’s pair".
Ihaventalight, I think you have a possible problem, because you don’t really understand the subject.
It is however reassuring to know, that being the owner of a handicapper, you would run your horse to the best of its abilty everytime, regardless of its chances. On the otherhand I wouldn’t. I would be paying the bills and I would be entitled to try and get the best from my investment. To me as a non-owner and not in any way having a "a servile attitude you have to your lords and masters – owners and trainers", I see this as ‘working the system rather than outright cheating. There is a grey area in my argument when it is blatent and too excess, but overall it is something factored into the end choice for a particular race.
I’ve read the crap that you have written in Chat II, so I am not at all surprised at your Holier Than God approach. If MJs articles in the Post were more of an intellectual level than a tipping section, then perhaps you should be ‘investing’ in the phone lines. Just one more point, if, as you say, the horses that he did put forward, always ran badly, at least you knew what not to back.
Please remember, "When people start to realise that trainers work for their owners not the general public it will make things much easier? " A good point.<br>
IHAL –
What is there to complain about? Nothing in some people’s views. Johnston made it clear that he liked Bandari and Kevin Darley liked Fight Your Corner…that tells you which horse Johnston fancied the most.
As for the thread on Chit Chat II, personally, i didn’t agree with some of the opinions put up but i do not regard any of the people that posted on that thread as racist. I disagreed with what the original poster typed but that person was not typing racist comments.
You must have had your head in the sand for the last few weeks Ihaventalight, makes me think that should read Ihaventahope, somehow more appropriate.
Mark Johnstone didn’t really consider shelling out 90,000 was worth it, that should have told you something.
The trainer and jockey were split on which had the better chance, that should have also told you something.
Add to that, the analysis that Escorial gave anyone who cared to read, that Bandari should not be hyped up after his Lingfield win, should in many ways steered you clear of that stable for a Derby winner.
I think you have a tunneled vision and only see what you want to see, perhaps you would be better with blinkers off, or are you trying for a better handicap rating.
If you consider most people on here, or those that don’t agree with you to be virtual morons, why are you visit this site. You’re not Phil are you??
The punters may have a "need to know" but they don’t have a "right to know" what the trainer tells an owner about his property, ie, will he stay,will he win etc.(most owners need to have a punt to cover expenses)
The preview in today’s Racing Post of the St James’s Palace Stakes dealt with the relative chances of stable companions Rock Of Gibraltar and Landseer as follows:-
"…with so little between the pair, O’Brien was understandably reluctant to favour one above the other when looking forward to today’s big race. He said yesterday: ‘Both horses are well and are ready to run again. They have both been very consistent and they have both won on different types of ground. They have both won Group 1 races around a bend at Longchamp, so the turning mile shouldn’t be a problem’."
Ihaventalight, you will understandably regard O’Brien’s failure to express a preference as a disgrace and an indication of the total contempt in which he clearly holds punters. Are you going to use this thread to slag him off or are you going to start a new one?
<br>well i have some sympathy for essex boy here
check out the run of royal rebel this year and this time last year a mirror image poor run at sandown switch of jockey and hey presto
sytamatic wins good 10f york handicap change of tactics loses epsom race back to original tactics wins ra race today
is johnson having a laugh or what
P Regent & Ihaventalight, do I hear the piteous bleating of people talking through their pockets?
<br>no venusian out of the 2 races i only bet on one and my bet was systamtic ,so no complaints on that score, it was oh so obvious what was going to happen.
my only point being that the running sometimes of mj horses dont seem to tie up with the prouncements he makes to the press.
i actually on the whole quite like mj and his salesmanship in bandari and fyc i take my hat of to.
but at times as in the interview ihl mentions he would be better saying nothing rather than make the comments he does
Check out these facts if you think Mark Johnson is not a good a trainer as A.P. O’Brien.<br>2 year olds for exmple at Ascot<br>Mark johnson has always made a punter betting level stakes money where as all the so called ‘best 2 year old<br>they ever have had ‘seems to be the thing to say about all the O’Brien horses. Maybe I am biased as I backed <br>Helm Bank (won 25/1 ) beat the odds on Irish horse and again yesterday another 2 year old Mark Johnson horse THE BONUS KING 2nd 10/1 beaten a head ith the Irish fav 3 lenghts behind at 4/7!<br>
This post just seems to have decended into a farce with IHAL just looking for any excuse to slag off MJ. <br>IHAL; you didn’t have many good words for Kieran Fallon on another post today either – why all the anger ?
Let’s face it, there are very few (I’m actually scratching my head to think of one) trainers who are completely forthcoming with regards to their horses. The trainer is after all not doing his job for the benefit of the punter, he’s doing it for the benefit of himself, his employees and his owners. <br>The whole Aidan O Brien Versus Mark Johnston debate is a pretty tame one anyway. O’Brien looks like a startled ‘rabbit in the headlights’ whenever I’ve seen him interviewed. The whole Coolmore operation is run on a strict need to know basis. True Mark Johnston doesn’t give a lot away either but the point I want to make is that he doesn’t have to as it’s not in his job spec. Neither guy is ‘punter’ friendly<br>Is there any more that can be said on this subject ?
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