- This topic has 15 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 6 months, 1 week ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Another one for today, just incredible and another one doing a somersault on fast ground.
Simply too much speed I’d say and the more summer jumping falls you have the bigger the number of injured or killed horses will be.The BHB has to take a serious look into this. It feels like ten times worse than what happens at Aintree or Cheltenham and we are talking about decent horses who seems to be sound jumpers and like the ground (I’m referring to the three fatalities today and Betty Baloo yesterday who were all quite talented and reliable NH horses)
May he rest in peace, but how many times will we write this in the coming months?
I don’t know what to think or feel any more. I can’t defend it with my non racing friends.
I so agree moehat, it has been a dreadful few weeks & I too find these tragedies hard to defend 😢
It’s really hard to take these happenings … there’s been far too many at the moment … I feel for everyone of them … 😪
“Another one for today, just incredible and another one doing a somersault on FAST GROUND.”
Warwick:
GOOD (Good to soft in places) changing to GOOD after Race 2 (6.05)Haydock:
GOOD (Good to soft in places; 5.7)Market Rasen:
GOOD (Watered; Chs 7.1)Hereford:
GOOD (Watered, Chs 7.5)Where is the FAST GROUND………..not one to waste an opportunity for a bit of exaggeration for greater effect?
HEAVY: 5.2
SOFT: 6.0
GOOD TO SOFT: 6.8
GOOD: 7.7
GOOD TO FIRM: 8.7
FIRM: 10.0Well griff, you don’t like it when people point out the unpleasant facts.
But, if you figure out the average speed of the 3-miler at Haydock, you’ll find out that the average speed of the winner was at around 29.9 mph which is related to fast ground.
If you look at the going on the Flat track it was described as good-firm.
And if horses can fall and roll over a few times come before coming to a halt after 10-15 yards then you know they were going a good clip. No reason to deny that, but you never like me pointing out the facts.
Well, just keep on posting…..“Well Griff, you don’t like it when people point out the unpleasant facts.”
Ha!! Facts and Ex RubyLight don’t really go hand in hand to be honest.
While I don’t have any evidence that there are more fatalities with horses racing on good ground compared to good to soft, I’d suggest there isn’t much difference, if any.
BTW, you may not have noticed, such are your efforts to pad out and manipulate your argument, but the flat horses ran on G/F……………..they’re the ones that don’t jump the obstacles.
What are you proposing now in your utopian world, no jump racing on good ground?
It really does seem to have been a grim couple of weeks for fatalities. I don’t appear to be alone among long-term racing fans in finding it all rather hard to stomach, even as someone who accepts that there are inherent risks and that fatalities will occur.
It would be good to see some statistics for fatalities and injuries based on different types of going and different times of year.
I know you are not suggesting we go down such a path Griff, but I do wonder if things are heading to the stage where Jumps racing should not occur on ground faster than good to soft. The major Festivals already seem very much headed in that direction.
I’d be against hard ground Marlingford and G/F for jumping, but genuinely good ground shouldn’t be an issue if there is going to be jumps racing.
Without any firm statistical evidence, I don’t have a view any more than that at present.
It’s certainly been an unsavory few days with NH fatalities, but I don’t see any evidence attributing them to the ground any more than any other week or month.
As the seasons go on, I’m progressively taking a similar view to Helcatmudwrestler, but even on the flat it doesn’t eliminate the fatality aspect. If I ever reach the point where I’ve had enough, that will be it. I certainly won’t continue to watch something that I find uncomfortable.
That would be a bit like somebody having a gluten issue, yet continuing to eat white bread!!!
Thanks for the reply Griff. I would certainly like to see some statistics that address the ground factor.
As I’ve many fond memories from my involvement in racing, I don’t want to get to the point where I have to call it a day. But if every two weeks were like the past two, then I would.
I know a lot of work is being done re welfare and fatalities, and there is clearly still more that can and should be done. I just hope it’s enough, as I have to wonder if bad breeding practices have made horses too fragile to endure the strain of being raced.
I have little doubt that in breeding and too much breeding for speed has weakened the thoroughbred. However, I don’t believe there is anything inherently wrong with ground on the fast side of good, even over jumps. Instead, over watering has been a huge problem and has ruined the racing surface on some courses.
I don’t want to upset anyone but if even racing enthusiasts are saying they are no longer prepared to defend the sport, perhaps the outlook for racing (in particular National Hunt) is even bleaker than I thought.
Here are the statistics on fatalities, or at least on those which occur on the racecourse. They show a clear downward trend:
While the last two weeks have not been good, it is unfair to take them in isolation.
Everyone would like the fatality rate to be zero but that is not going to happen. The BHA can congratulate itself on there being no fatalities in the Grand National by almost completely removing the jumping test – but horses can still break their leg on the Flat at Chester.
Thanks for the links to the stats CAS. I wonder if there is further more granular analysis that doesn’t appear in the published reports e.g. the impact of ground as has been mentioned.
The funny thing about the statistics is that it doesn’t feel to me as if fatalities are falling. Perhaps those caused by falls are, but catastrophic leg injuries seem to be on the rise.
This may just be all about visibility though. Even though the racing authorities and media do a poor job at updating the public on the wellbeing of horses who have suffered bad falls and injuries, there is still a lot more information out there now due to the internet.
I agree it’s wise not to make rash or emotive decisions based on a short period of time. It’s also important to remember that one of the most high-profile recent deaths, Shishkin, was nothing at all to do with racing.
I don’t want to be unoptimistic about the future of the sport, but it is going to need to continue to be heavily proactive on the welfare topic in order to survive. There have been some promising signs in the past few years, though there is still much more that can be done.
Here are the figures for Ireland. Unfortunately they are not split between Flat and jumps.
In 2023, there were 111 fatalities from 33,542 runners: a fatality rate of 0.3%.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.