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And once I realised you could avoid actual work by backing a sufficient number of winners, I was hooked for life. Who wants to work for a lifetime and keel over two weeks after getting the boot and a gold watch? Not in this life.
I take it you are a pro punter then Max?
Unfortunately, 99% of people on here have too many commitments to make that happen, especially in the current economic climate. I thought about trying pro punting but here’s the problem. I have no cash! I have mass student loans, I have a mortgage, I have a girlfriend with whom I share my house. I cant risk following my dream as much as I’d love too and so I am stuck in a 9-5. Like most racing fans I suspect.
Its quite hard to keep to the point sometimes marble…can be harder to get a point across by text not words, lol!
I too rarely go racing as in the main I grew up in Aberdeen…85 miles to the nearest course at Perth! By the time I had paid a train fair I’d have had no gambling money, lol.
And your right, gambling is a touchy subject. Rightly or wrongly gambling and horse racing go hand in hand, but i can have racing without gambling…its still a buzz! Gambling just makes the nundane more interesting for me.
Every time I hear the phrase, “leaner, fitter beast” the hairs on the back of my head start to bristle. I can remember someone else, a dark shadow, a long time back who was obsessed with the leaner and fitter beast and ended up starving an entire country and wiping out three industries. But that’s by the by.
There are punters here who can remember the winter of 1963 when there was no racing for four months. Surely today is a better prospect? We need to fight to maintain the growth, not to restrict the growth.
Racing for the converted has never been better. Drone, do you remember the eighties in midwinter, the days of Extel? No racing for a week; now we’ve got the sand, the seemingly hated sand, we haven’t missed a days betting.
Twenty years ago this week we’d have whole strings of horses stuck in their boxes and bookies twiddling their markers. Punters got Perry Barr. And Sterrebeek if they were lucky – with no form, and where all the horse names began with the same letter.
Today, you’ve got the exchanges, the Tote and bookies. Two specialist channels and currently two channels worth of terrestrial interest. More fora than you can shake a modem at to discuss racing.
Bookies open at eight in the morning where I’m from for people to bet on late night aussie dogs. You can bet in the evenings under lights. South Africa, Hong Kong. Germany, France, Italy. The US. The Czech Republic. Last year, on several occasions, I bet for 24 hours on events from three continents, horses and dogs, plus several multi table poker tournaments.
Why would anyone want to trim this down? For what reason? It’s the closest thing to nirvana I can think of while keeping my boxer shorts on.
Young people would LOVE it!
Football? Twice a week and most good bets odds on. Golf? How many runners??? Both pale shadows of the sport of kings in terms of betting. Our sport isn’t marketing the possibilities, the lifestyle, the culture to anything like it’s potential.
In 2009 there will always be an opportunity to win money, as Martyn says at Southwell, “without work!” To quote McMillan, we’ve never had it so good.
How come the message isn’t getting across?
Is it complacency? Worse, is it elitism? Do we actually want the young involved? I’m beginning to wonder.Drone, if you read the posts from GTD, Marb and from Doug, posters who are younger than both of us and therefore would know more about the young than we ever would, they’ve all spoken about racing not penetrating their generation’s consciousness at all. My contention is that we cannot leave that to chance.
Doug, sorry for being rude. I was a pro punter on the exchanges from November 2006 to October 2008 before taking a full time job recently. The nerves did for me, as well as an annoying habit of backing slower horses than I predicted in advance. I’ll be back though when I’ve paid a few bills and habituated to the valium.
Marb, I’ve got all these books on the shelves behind me and there are black and white photographs from the thirties of thousands upon thousands of people of all ages cheering on various winners. I’d love those days back.
At Southwell on Sunday, there were six hundred racegoers tops (and seventeen books, which was unusual), yet during the United Nations/ Rock Anthem duel up the straight, there was still a right buzz, a big bounce, only, on a much smaller scale.
And do you know what was different? In the photographs, the people were mostly men in caps and greatcoats, a homogenous group. At Southwell? There were young, and old, and women (plenty of), and party goers and couples, an asian gang all mixing with the grizzled regulars who will be laid to rest there. The BBC would have loved it.
Everyone loves a good bet.
Max – i think you’ve got the age old thought process whereas some people think that what’s good for us is good for everyone else. You obviously get a good buzz out of gambling, and thoroughly enjoy it. However, let’s not fool ourselves that it should be a past time that every youngster should partake in, or that they’re missing out. I love a bet myself, and i like looking at stats and trying to pick out a winner. Let’s look at the bigger picture though, gambling isn’t something that all youngsters should be involved in, the bookies would absolutely love that. In my humble opinion, betting is something that you find, it shouldn’t necessarily be put upon you by betting enthusiasts or over zealous advertising. I don’t think any country needs a generation of young folks throwing money down the pan, losing assets or having unpredicatble moods in accordance to what has happened on a race track or football pitch.
When I was a kid Graeme we had a bookies runner in our village and every kid I knew got sucked in. Grand National was the big day when lots had their first bets and it snowballed from there. Thankfully my Dad didn’t know a thing about betting and never knew what i was up to
Nowadays it’s different of course, but unfortunately for many who end up losing everything they have, racing needs to promote itself. The bookies are a huge part of the scene and without them the game dies.
If it is to survive in today’s world then the industry has to be aggressive. You and I may not like it but it’s something that won’t go away.
Sad but true it’s then up to us, if we have youngsters. to advise our kids on the pros and cons of the game, We could shout from the highest mountain and Ladbrokes, Hills and Co couldn’t care less who gets hurt even if they say they do.
I agree with you 100% but in reality if we don’t want our kids to bet we should take full responsibility, not point the finger at others who are only promoting their sport/business in the best way they can
Fists – yes bookies are an integral part of racing, but the punter will always be there regardless of how few betting companys there are. If a dozen went bust tomorrow, then there are so many mainstream online sites that people would just move onto another one. Basically, the punter will always be there, and so will the bookie. Bookies are like drug kingpins, one falls and another is waiting to take his place.
Graeme, check my second last post. I haven’t the faintest what the young want – it’s up to YOU to tell us. I’ve said my piece here. How can racing get your mates down to the track? No activity can be sustained with an ageing, conservative audience. Mind you, it sounds like you don’t think it’s to be encouraged – in which case, I’ve wasted a couple of hours of my life.
Has anyone at the BHA ever done any marketing? I don’t mean branding or advertising, but sending teams out to the towns and cities and asking questions. There’s a couple I’d like answering.
I’m not that young, 26 soon, going on 76. Anyway, i can’t speak for anyone apart from myself. I just think that horse racing isn’t a sport that you can take to people in the realistic aim of it having widespread appeal. The potential market is the gambler. It’s the gambler who needs targeted, regardless of age. I think society focuses too much on the young at times. Target everyone from Granny Smith and her dog who like a shot at the bingo, to the wee man at the end of the street with a limp.
As far as introducing it to people at racecourse leve, which you’d know alot about Max, then it’s probably a catch 22, British youngsters go where cheap booze is. Then again so does trouble, so do you sacrifice the civility of a race track meeting to attract punters with cheap booze ?
Advertising for the novice would also help i’d imagine. Give the sport some glossy advertising in magazines and newspapers to add to the glamour. Explain to people what a furlong is, what a handicap is, what blinkers are, how the ground effects runners.
We can talk until the sun comes down, but it will always be about opinions. For me horse racing is a sport of the gambler, and therefore will only appeal to the gambler, regardless of age. Here’s a quick thought, maybe the BHA should take advantage on horse racing interest from you pound a year punter at grand national time, to bring the sport to them on a more regular basis ?
I just think that horse racing isn’t a sport that you can take to people in the realistic aim of it having widespread appeal.
According to Lydia today, horse racing is the second most attended sporting activity in the country (I thought greyhounds ranked higher). It does have mass appeal.
Have you read McCiricks article in the Post today, Graeme? I’ve just been out to buy a copy. He says that he cannot name a single person in power at Channel Four who cares about horse racing. He believes (though he says so with less certainty), that this situation also exists at the BBC.
How do you reconcile these two states? The second most attended sporting activity, yet virtually no interest at the terrestrial channels. I can’t see it.
British youngsters go where cheap booze is. Then again so does trouble, so do you sacrifice the civility of a race track meeting to attract punters with cheap booze ?
There’s the rub, Graeme. The sacrifice is worth it to me, but I know I’m in a minority on this forum. As I said earlier, I’ve been racing on beer buses/stag dos and had a cracking time. And I know several lads who prefer racing now to football as a result and can’t wait for the summer.
Explain to people what a furlong is, what a handicap is, what blinkers are, how the ground effects runners.
What about the courses paying a tipster to educate the public? They run orientationseminars an hour before racing – free to attend with your ticket. They explain all this and go through the racecard bit by bit. No tips, just education. There’s a book called “Horseplayers” (which thread starter Cav signalled as a christmas special), which describes how Hawthorne racetrack employ a professional to do just this. At the minute, racing education is the preserve of the rich, the horse owners and the corporate boxes. Why not expand the service to the people? I’d do it for a score an hour and a beef cob.
For me horse racing is a sport of the gambler, and therefore will only appeal to the gambler, regardless of age.
Partly disagree with you here. My Dad, brother and I went to the Curragh in September this year (see Lounge). Dad would rather give his money to the poorbox than a bookie and yet he had a fantastic day. He hasn’t stopped going on about it. A church open to everyone is the most prosperous church.
People aren’t all the same of course
One of the things I found before big screens were placed on tracks was if you took a non betting person to the races was them saying they couldn’t see much. They liked to go look at the horses round the paddock but the novelty of that wore off quickly and after a couple of races they spent the rest of their time in the bar looking bored.
However if they had a bet you got a totally differnet animal especially women who were up there shouting there heads off if the horse was anywhere near the leaders at the finish. Even if their horse was well held they got a huge kick out of it and you cold e sure next time they would be asking you to take them.
Racing isn’t like football and is a much harder sport to entice people to go.
Ask a girl or a young lad. Do you want to go and watch Denman or go see Ronaldo?
We know as racegoers past and present there is a lot more to going racing and the betting and we can get enjoyment from many different apsects of a day out…..my point is without TV and betting shops they would be dead in the water, unless everyone was like your Dad.
Football is a game everyone plays at sometime in their early life but not 1 in 1000 will ever ride a horse…………if we had scool horse racing with the students ridng hem you would need 3 times the amount of courses staging twice as many meetingin a season……..but that will never happen and eg I for one wouldn’t be against any type of advertising by bookmaers. Keeping the numbers up is hard enough without people cutting their own throats….punters all eventually go racing and probably that’s where the majority of new fans stem from
Fist, what do you think of the on-course expert idea and the free seminars?
And what do you think about offering Hayley the ride on a well fancied Derby horse for publicity purposes?
On Course experts you got me there??? Are we talking of having Big Mac cloned and having one on each race course. Gawd forbid
Where any seminar is concerned it’s all down to the caliber of speakers and of course attendance. They have been used for decades in all walks of business and to be honest it much dpends on how good you are at your profession and how well versed you are on the subject at hand whether they are helpful or boring.
Speakers are brought along to motivate people and I have been party to more than a few. In sales for example we always found that sales would increase for a short period right after a seminar but with 10 days dropped back to normal.
Are these seminars to be aimed at the staff within racing or to the racing public? What subjects do they cover? Sorry if I am a bit vague I no longer live in the UK.
As far as H Turner is concered it would be hard not to offer her a ride……enough Fist ffs
Seriously I would say not a cat in hell’s chance of that happening. If she rides for a yard aand one came along for sure she should ride it but even then whould she.You have a horse who could win the Derby which is worth millions in stud fees. Haley has ridden him and won on him but sitting in the sidelnes is our old pal Mr. Fallon………drugs or no drugs any owner in the world with half a brain would have Fallon on him in a flash. Murtagh Spencer whoever.
Good as she is when it comes to millions at stake I doubt if she could hold on to a mount let alone be given one. She’s good..very good! but you would be under presure from all involved to get the very best available which she is not.
Fist, rather than a racing insider, you would have a trained trainer/lecturer/seminarist with a strong interest in horse racing, perhaps a professional punter who would deliver an hour long seminar to novice racegoers before racing.
The topics would be simple – how to read a racecard and the important elements in picking a winner. The seminar leader would go through an upcoming race live and try and get the group to come up with the winner.
Currently, racecourses often interview an expert before racing who gives out his/her tips in the paddock. Nottingham use Eamon Gavigan or Graham Goode a lot. Trouble is, in this scenario, the racegoer is a passive receptor of information and few people appear interested in their opinions.
By learning how to read a race and what the symbols mean, people are in control of their own destiny; it’s an important difference (give the man a fish or a fishing rod, etc, etc).
Second point: Hayley rode Taamer to win the Haynes Hanson and Clark. Tregoning thinks this is top drawer, absolutely top notch, and a live candidate for the Blue Riband. Sheikh Hamdan is a forward thinking owner and I’m sure he can see the benefits of the publicity for UK racing, (which he loves, more than his brother). If she wins, the profile of racing goes stellar.
Just a couple of ideas.
That sort of Seminar would require financing and as sure as God made little green apples someone would quickly suggest a broadcast on the many TV screens round the course. It would arguably have the same affect and wouldn’t restrict peoples movements and they would be buying food beer etc and still bringing in income to the course.
Don’t know what hey haven’t done that before now as part of their service to the public.
Graeme Goode?……….we got better tipsters on here
I’m sure people will listen if they are within ear shot to any face they recognise…………what might work even better would be open air jockey interviews which would get the crowds gathering round in the hope he might fancy one and say so…………The powers that be could be against it but I doubt if they would.
"According to Lydia today, horse racing is the second most attended sporting activity in the country"
Probably because it’s on every single day.
"There’s the rub, Graeme. The sacrifice is worth it to me, but I know I’m in a minority on this forum. As I said earlier, I’ve been racing on beer buses/stag dos and had a cracking time. And I know several lads who prefer racing now to football as a result and can’t wait for the summer."
I guess you’re right. I mean, look at darts and the atmosphere booze brings, and there dosen’t seem to be any great hassle. Maybe i’m being naive.
"What about the courses paying a tipster to educate the public? They run orientation seminars an hour before racing – free to attend with your ticket. They explain all this and go through the racecard bit by bit. No tips, just education"
I think earlier you wanted people introduced to racing who would never consider watching a race. Well people who attend courses don’t fall under this bracket. What would help would be racing sites no wanting people to subscribe all the time, and catchier advertising. Racing channels costing more than a bbc tv license dosen’t help much either, but if that’s the cost then that’s the cost. It’s a pitty there aren’t more races on council telly.(bbc 1&2, ITV, channels 4 & 5)
I will look into that article you mentioned, and see how much that book is aswell.
As always seems to be the case on this site, plenty of good ideas and thoughts. Having only ever been to 3 courses in my life (Ayr/Perth/Musselburgh) I cant comment on some of the initiatives that already exist.
Max said "At Southwell on Sunday, there were six hundred racegoers tops (and seventeen books, which was unusual), yet during the United Nations/ Rock Anthem duel up the straight, there was still a right buzz, a big bounce, only, on a much smaller scale."
If 600 is an accurate estimate then surely there is something not right there.
However, not to be too negative, January is probably not the ideal month financially and weather wise for going racing!
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