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Lets face it Hayley Turners face across the papers will attract more newcomers to the sport than Ryan Moore’s miserable scowl.
If I was an apparatchik at the BHA, or maybe someone like "Stoker" Hartington, I’d pay a breakfast visit to connections of a well fancied Derby runner and have a little natter about putting up a certain female jockey. I’d even discuss a financial inducement from the Levy.
Hayley winning the Derby would be a massive, massive boost to the sport and maybe the stimulus the sport needs to get the BBC back on board. She’s good enough now too.
The presence of the charisma-less Ryan Moore wouldn’t add any extra on the list for his own twenty first birthday party. God forbid he wins the Derby before he has a reality check about the importance of publicity and media.
Maxilon – your comments about Ryan Moore are a tad ignorant. People are the way they are for a reason. Not everybody can be charismatic, and a good jockey is more important than a charismatic one.
That’s interesting. I felt my comments displayed a prescience found rarely on the free media accompanied as they were by a shrewd understanding of the subject matter.
Imagine my surprise on waking from my slumbers to find an opinion expressing the polar opposite!
Just to reiterate, Donkey. My contention is that the victory of Moore (who wouldn’t participate in the Shergar Cup preamble and photocall, except on pain of disciplinary action and who has upset most of the paid media attached to horse racing with his reticence and truculence at one time or other), in the Derby would not penetrate the consciousness of the wider public because he wouldn’t talk about the experience, except in monosyllables.
Plus, his lack of eye contact with the interviewer after a race makes the novice viewer think he’s been kidnapped.
Hayley is articulate, enthusiastic, engaging, media-friendly, easy on the eye and a highly talented woman struggling in a male dominated industry. A dribbling dullard who communicates using finger paints and who has the imagination of a housebrick could make a Pulitzer Prize winning front page story out of that one.
That’s the point I’m making. Hope that helps.
You’re entitled to your opinion obviously. I just wouldn’t be so quick to judge someone as i don’t know the going ons in their life. Your minds obviously made up though.
This is a very interesting comment in an article i read.
A wry certainty, instead, courses through him – and a couple of hours later he breaks his three-day drought and wins the first race at Salisbury on a 16-1 shot. As he stretches out his hand I remind him that his father once joked that he had become a "miserable *******".
"Yeah, when you’re wasting hard, your character changes. You lose your temper much more quickly. I was probably full of rage then. People might still say I’m miserable, but when you get to know me a little, like now, I’m OK. I’m all right really."
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This is taken for a separate article….
For it seems what is being portrayed as a bad attitude is no more than a combination of a hectic schedule, an intense focus on his job and an inherent shyness at a time when the sport’s wish of its fairy godmother is that its most successful jockeys are all media-savvy showmen like Frankie Dettori.
But even Moore’s driver, Mick Guest, says his passenger is so focused on the day ahead that he is hard to talk to on the way to the races. "During office hours," Guest says, "it’s tunnel vision, but he’s the life and soul on the way home."
Moore also readily admits to a distinct unease at being in front of a camera. "It’s not so much shyness but I’m just not very good at it," he explains. "I cringe listening to replays of myself. Even at school I never wanted to be there for the school photo."
There are parallels with jumping’s multiple champion AP McCoy at the same stage. His intensity cast him as an angry man in the early days, both are teetotal and both set themselves high standards.
Moore’s personality deficiencies don’t help racing though, GTD.
Racing needs all the help it can get at the moment with the larcenous SP situation, the ludicrous dominance of football, the credit crunch and the scandalous cull of racing coverage at the BBC.
Sport is still male dominated and some of the participants can be a bit mundane, which is why female success is seized upon by the media like dogs on a bone.
In the United States, it has been argued that Julie Krone kept racing on the front pages for a decade. It’s unusual, out of the ordinary. In 2008, the Washington Post gave their last remaining turf writer his cards, as did the Philadelphia Enquirer. I can see a time that British newspapers have a good look at their turf teams. If racing as a whole promotes Hayley Turner we could create a huge buzz.
My contention is that Hayley would attract new people to the sport. Ryan Moore wouldn’t, as good a jockey as he is.
If Sheikh Hamdan has multiple runners in the Derby, it would be a shrewd move for the future to ask Richard Hills to ride another, and let Hayley ride Tameer, whom she partnered to his fluent Haynes, Hanson and Clark win.
I can only think of what got me into the racing properly, and that was big name horses as opposed to the charisma of jockeys. Kauto Star and Deman, in my opinion, have more of a pull that any jockey. Then again, why not have both i suppose.
As for that American jockey you mentioned, i hadn’t even heard of her before, but i have heard of Big Brown and Curlin.
Could it not also be argued that, pre credit crunch anyway, racing was in a healthier position that ever before in terms of attracting punters. I’d imagine the era of internet gambling has seen to this ?
Little things that could also help, which can’t be stopped, is the early retuirement of class horses i.e Zarkava.
With regards to attracting new interest in racing then I dont think the jockey, or even the horse in some instances, makes a blind bit of difference.
Growing up I was probably one of only a couple kids in my school who had any interest in racing. And its not an easy sport to market to youngsters when it is in essence a gambling sport appealing to over 18’s for legal reasons.
If its more numbers wanted into our racetracks then I think the friday night disco nights in the summer prove that its the extras away from the racing that help attract greater numbers.
I have a twin brother. He just doesn’t understand and never has understood why I like/liked racing. But he enjoys a lads day at the races now and again as its a social event with some excitement thrown in. He will never be a racing fan so to be honest I dont think having extra publicity of horses and jockeys matters one little bit.
So, douginho. We just give up then as a sport, and like blind squirrels, hope to bump into the magic acorn of mass popularity? I’ve come up with an idea which just might work.
BTW, I am a huge fan of the UB40 nights. I also go once a year with my football mates to a big meeting; (I’d also have bingo, skittle alleys, bowling, stand up comedy, speed dating and organic supermarkets attached to racecourses to get people interested because without mass popularity through inclusion, TV and change we have racing as elite point-to-point meeting for the flask and welly brigade).
But in all sports, it’s the famous names who get people talking over the watercooler. The top performers, the champions. And nothing gets people talking like a top female sportstar in a male dominated world.
She’s the best asset we’ve had since Dettori and I hope we don’t blow it.
Welcome to the forum btw, GTD and douginho.
Cheers Max. It’s a difficult one all the same. You obviously have a deep passion for horse racing. It’s not easy promoting a sport that goes hand in hand with gambling, which is for 18 and overs.
It’s simply not as marketable as football, or have the same mass appeal. Everyone had a football, but how many have had a horse ?
Being such an enthusiast, i thought you’d be delighted with the ammount of punters that internet gambling has brought to racing ?
Sorry Maxilon, I am not saying we give up on racing. Not by a long shot. Perhaps, like Graeme says its just the case that the sport isn’t as marketable as others. Just in general terms, how many people who are into horse racing (like on this site) were interested in racing from a young age, ie 12? How many 12 year olds are into football? Into Motor racing? Into Rugby? etc.
Not disputing we need star names, big clashes, etc.
Anyway as we all like Racing we are perhaps the wrong people to be having this conversation! If we could all convert one mate to racing then that would be a success!!! ie one football team mate!
There’s a key out there, lads. There’s a key to engaging people’s interest. Southwell racecourse run escorted school trips (I understand Leicester does too), and that’s one angle. Promoting Hayley is another.
I used to think it was cheap admission, but in the US and France it’s cheap as chips to get in and they don’t flood the place. We don’t do too bad on the attendance front.
I go on a bit, but I can see a time that unless people stand and fight and put their brains together (stopping Mosey for a start), we’ll be watching the Derby from a marquee somewhere near Oswestry and the only people watching will be incontinent Racing Forumites.
GTD, why do you ask me about Internet Punters? Have I said something?
"GTD, why do you ask me about Internet Punters? Have I said something?"
Nope. I just think that the ammount of punters who bet online is an indication that racing is going in the right direction in terms of progessional popularity as a sport. It’s not all doom and gloom.
What’s the deal with SPs btw, i done a google search and didn’t see anything about it.
Getting back to Hayley Turner and to Firefox’s comment about the fuss about a calender 100, remember it was only after Dettori and Weaver’s protracted title battle of the early 90s that the authorities decided to differentiate between the turf season and year round in terms of the title, so it is that which is the new fangled part of racing.
True there was obviously no AW racing in days of old, but its ok for Pat Eddery to stick around in November and December like he did once or twice towards the end of his career to get to 3 figures, but not ok for a woman? It was a good achievement and why should it not be recognised?- Total Posts 17716
The sport needs something positive, and especially on the AW as recentley i’ve seen some shocking drifts and rides to suit which doesnt help but to have Hayley ride 100 winners and every ride she gives her best its a statement of intent which all kids should look up to, you dont need to Betfair and McKeown tactics to make a living in Racing look at Buick, Flint, Turner etc if you work hard on your game you can be anything you want in this sport
Being of a perverse nature and not finding my passions with the common throng, I freely admit my views are unlikely to be representative, but what attracted me to racing when a young fogie was the very air of inaccesibility, tweedy tradition and refined decadence that Max seems so intent on dismantling.
Personally I don’t think racing – however it is marketed – is the type of sport that will ever have mass appeal in its own right, as in this plastic-fantastic urban world it is basically an alien, rather strange and atavistic pursuit: folk on horseback. Unlike football, cricket, swimming, tennis, cycling…hardly a ‘game’ children can have a go at themselves at weekends, or in the case of motorsport something they can relate to because their dad drives a car and know they will too someday.
The Derby and Grand National draw the interest of millions because like the boat-race they are strange one-offs etched in history, not because it is horses racing.
What is wrong with peripheral minority interests?
Congrats to Hayley Turner. Debate its merits until the cows come home. It remains a landmark achievement.
Drone, I was attracted to horse racing for the same things as you.
"Flash" Harry waiting for the St Trinians girls with his Sporting Life and Capstan Navy Cut; Prince "Ras" Monolulu; Brighton Rock; Donald Sinden racing into Patrick Cargill’s office and asking for an "investment" to back a dead cert at Newmarket. I actually like Julian Wilson and all that Flashman Old Etonian crowd (which is going to make me as popular as leprosy on here). There is something special about the sport.
Nowhere on Earth but on a British racecourse could you find such a heady mix of tweeds, panjandrums, ne-er do wells, shysters, lowlife, six-time losers, tipsters, skanks, swanks, tarts, strumpets, absent salesmen, sick claimants, billionaires, aristocrats, politicos, captains of industry, liars, storytellers and fantasy artists all mixing together as happy as sandboys on a windswept beach.
And once I realised you could avoid actual work by backing a sufficient number of winners, I was hooked for life. Who wants to work for a lifetime and keel over two weeks after getting the boot and a gold watch? Not in this life.
But Drone, we no longer matter, you and I. We’re specks on the windscreen. The vox populi has spoken. The Great Britain we describe doesn’t exist anymore; to paraphrase a famous eighties ditty by a group called Bauhaus – "Basil Rathbone’s Dead".
No-one is more disenchanted than I at the Instant Celebrity Plasma culture, but the Instant Celebrity Plasma culture is what we’ve got.
Cater to the minority interest in 2008 and you get speedway, circuit cycling and ice hockey. Horse racing is the third biggest spectator sport in the country (and the fifth or sixth biggest industry) and my argument is that we’ve got to attract new punters through the door by any means possible. If it means catering to the lowest common denominator, then so be it.
Go easy on me, I’m off sick with the lurgy.
But Drone, we no longer matter, you and I. We’re specks on the windscreen. The vox populi has spoken. The Great Britain we describe doesn’t exist anymore
No-one is more disenchanted than I at the Instant Celebrity Plasma culture, but the Instant Celebrity Plasma culture is what we’ve got.
my argument is that we’ve got to attract new punters through the door by any means possible. If it means catering to the lowest common denominator, then so be it.
I actually have a little more respect for today’s youth than you appear to have Max. I don’t for one minute believe everyone under the age of say 25 is obsessed with celebrity, or seeks instant gratification, or spend the evenings glued to the nauseating BBC3, or playing vacuous computer games. One only has to read the thoughts of several young’uns here on TRF to realise that some are as tired of this fallacy that the only way to attract this maligned generation to something remotely different, challenging or cerebral is to ‘dumb it down’.
There is also the fallacy – particularly true in the case of racing – that if the young are not patronising something or are not spending their hard-earned on it then the venture is seen to be a failure. It has long been the case in this country that the most disposable wealth is to be found amongst the elders, never more true now that those (currently) in work and with mortgages and other debts are in for a tough, cash-strapped few years, while the older and retired without debt will be largely unaffected. Infact they may be somewhat better off as prices fall and be able to ‘make hay. ‘Tis an ill wind…
So why this obsession with attracting the young? What is wrong with something that you may ‘grow into’ later? Later is where the real money is.
Regarding racing in particular. Like my belief that this on-going painful amputation on the High Street of the wholly unnecessary only in existence because folk were fooled into spending money they didn’t have will actually be a good thing once the fallout has settled, I hope racing faces a similar cull as the Depression bites and a leaner, fitter beast emerges, and we are presented with a healthily pruned fixture list: a sport that can be ‘marketed’ as something a little bit special rather than the monotonous, bloated, unsustainable, never-ending treadmill we have now.
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