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Hi Titus, your final link reminded me of this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/horseracing/10151770/Breeding-industrys-drive-for-profit-led-to-worrying-events-at-the-Tattersalls-Derby-sale-at-Fairyhouse.htmlTitus, I’d have thought you’d be cursing me for damning you to a Herculean task. Will you be publishing your findings at some length? Do you blog anywhere?
All the best
Joe
And, yes, Altior’s gear changes up the Sandown hill were something to see, albeit off a reasonably sedate early pace.
I’m in danger of boring everyone now, but quite what he is doing novice chasing with a target worth £86k when he’d have every chance of nailing 2 or 3 Champion Hurdles, Lord knows.
Hi Joe –
The labours of Hercules continue – in that the data is one thing but further analysis/interpretation another … Louise’s additional link gives a flavour of some of the added complications.
Problems then get further compounded by different attitudes between owners/trainers as to ‘getting their wind fixed’. Some do it seemingly willy-nilly; others (like MJR on the flat) have a much more diagnostic/conservative approach that is grounded in welfare issues and the success rates of the various operations. This is perhaps not surprising given the veterinary background there. There are some useful links to this in the ‘If Only They Could Talk’ section on the MJR website – but of particular interest to the previous discussion on this thread is Charlie Johnston’s clear statement (Vital info about wind operations – Feb 16) that there is a genetic component to certain wind conditions.
http://www.markjohnstonracing.com/webpages/klarion-ifonly%20-2.html
He further suggests that there should be more regulation of breeding from affected horses … If you delve further back on the web page there are a couple of additional pieces on diagnostic testing, clear explanations of the differences between the various operations, and some salutary stuff on their effectiveness. This is the most informative stuff that I’ve found on wind ops in the public domain.
We’ll see I guess. I don’t have a blog – too much writing for the day job to service one of those I’m afraid!
Joe – re Altior: you are not the only one who has been puzzling over why he is chasing. I think, though, that I may have a potential answer …
Looking at the pedigrees of the horses that NJH has run and/or entered up this season (91 so far, I think, although I may have missed some), 16 have Danzig/Danehill in combination with other sons of ND, typically via Sadler’s Wells. Danzig is a well-known influence for speed in flat pedigrees.
MTOY is the oldest horse that I can find currently in training @ Seven Barrows with Danzig in his pedigree (2007). His pedigree is the classic NJH Champion Hurdle horse i.e. ND combinations with a ‘speed’ influence. In the past the speed influence seems to have been through Raise a Native. Binocular, Punjabi and Peace and Co (whatever happened to him?) are all built on this ‘model’. Danzig is the other popular way to build speed into the pedigree of a staying horse. As we know, over the past few years, MTOY has been the Seven Barrows CH horse. Whilst they talked (a little bit) about sending him chasing they never did.
Look at the current crop of novice chasers at Seven Barrows, though, and there we find not only Altior but also OO Seven and Different Gravey out of mares with Danzig behind the broodmare sire. The influence is different in each of these cases (Key of Luck, Eagle Eyed and Danehill Dancer respectively). Further down the supply chain, in the 2012 crop of novice hurdlers at Seven Barrows, there is Jenkins, Bardd and Khezerabad – all of them with Danzig in their pedigrees.
My hunch is that this is all part of an experiment that, in turn, is about seeking competitive advantage – especially important given how WPM’s buyers have got the French market (that used to be such a happy hunting ground) cornered. What is afoot, I sense, is to see if speed-influenced horses can not only be hurdlers but also become chasers – but chasers with an electric turn of foot. This would be the way to beat WPM/Ricci/Wylie (and Giggi). I think this may be why Altior’s currently chasing rather than winning Champion Hurdles … !
Whether this experiment comes off, or not, is another matter. After all, these horses have got to be able to jump fences, and Different Gravey certainly didn’t do anything today to convince in that department.
“Speed-influenced” horses have long been a feature of jump racing in the UK and Ireland, think of stallions like Flamenco, Knight Of The Garter, Lord Gayle, Anshan etc.
Derby and Arc Winner, Workforce has been bought from Japan and is going to stud in Ireland as a duel purpose horse http://www.theirishfield.ie/workforce-to-stand-at-knockhouse-stud-241923/
What do people think of this ?
I think that we never had so many high class performers as NH stallions, nor so few bloodlines in Ireland. What this will mean for the broodmare herd of the future is anybody’s guess. Regarding Workforce himself, he doesn’t seem to have had any foals in Japan for the last two years, so did they fail to find a Flat home for him?
http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/articles/stud-season-in-england-and-ireland
Read this article which shows the terribly skewed state of breeding as caused by fashion and commercialism.
As for Workforce he has two close crosses of Northern Dancer and many of his foals could have multiple crosses and with them crosses to Native Dancer to whom he has an extra line, not a good state of affairs for a NH stallion.
I wonder if his foals are slow to mature and that is why he has been given up on. Or perhaps there has been a physical difficulty if he hasn’t served mares for two years?
Over the years many top class horses have disappointed, but it would be good if they could be at least given a chance.I agree Louise, Workforce has Northern Dancer on both sides of his pedigree and Sadlers Wells in there for good measure I think it might be hard to find many NH broodmares where that is not already featured in their pedigree, maybe that`s why he started in Japan
Has Canford Cliffs any future as a NH sire?
I suppose only time will tell Space Cowboy, but in my opinion the price of his stud fee (Even though it`s been reduced for next year) would not get many NH breeders beating a path to his door
Sorry Crepello I was typing as you posted, but yes I think exactly the same as you, and here is another announced just today Clovis Du Berlais ……Northern dancer both sides yet again
Great link Crepello – that is one staggering statistic (nearly 60% of all the mares in England and Ireland in 2016 going to SW and Danzig line stallions). The implications in terms of future generations are as significant.
On Workforce & Clovis du Berlais as NH stallions, it’s not just the ND repeats on both sides that matter (and their duplication in so many mares), but the addition of Raise a Native in both pedigrees. I look at the pedigrees of these two stallions and think how easy it will be to get Raise a Native on both sides of a pedigree. Doubling up on King’s Theatre, for example, would produce this, as would sending a KT mare to Workforce.
Workforce was certainly up against it on the roster at Shadai:
With the likes of Walk in the Park emerging as a top NH sire, over two miles anyway, I ask the question why not go one better? Galileo to be exact.
You can’t argue that WitP had more stamina than Galileo, so why has he, Galileo, never covered any NH brood mares? Is it a case of sticking to the tried and tested sires? Or is it more that Coolmore want to keep him very much under lock and key? It certainly couldn’t be a case of him being too costly.
The thought of a match between Galileo and Annie Power/Quevega is frightening to entertain.
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