- This topic has 129 replies, 28 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 7 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
I actually don’t think Champions Day is a very good idea because, as Matt Chapman pointed out, it isn’t at the end of the season & the horses competing won’t actually be ‘champions’ of anything using the same context of that word as other sports. But, I certainly wouldn’t be quick to dismiss it, the proof will be in a year or two’s time.
Yep, time to stop the whining and whingeing and accept that we’re stuck with these changes.
We all enjoy this sport with varying degrees of passion so let’s accentuate the positive and wish BHA/RFC and the Champions’ Series well and let’s hope it’s a runaway success
Only the most churlish would actively wish failure on the venture; that would do racing and we disciples no good at all
The only way is up
Anyway, this Newmarket Ascot juggle has received an inordinate amount of attention; it’s actually little more than a semantic romantic affair in comparison with the almost criminally irresponsible (IMHO) drafting of the subordinate 2011 fixture list.
A refusal to reduce – other than cosmetically – the number of fixtures in the face of declining prize money will, I think, haunt our cabal of three-lettered acronyms for far longer than the success or otherwise of a small novel series of well-endowed races
Yep, time to stop the whining and whingeing and accept that we’re stuck with these changes.
We all enjoy this sport with varying degrees of passion so let’s accentuate the positive and wish BHA/RFC and the Champions’ Series well and let’s hope it’s a runaway success
Only the most churlish would actively wish failure on the venture; that would do racing and we disciples no good at all
Hear, hear.
- Total Posts 17716
Heard over the weekend that R4C actively discussed the Derby in the early days – both location and distance. Luckily common sense prevailed.
And I bet the Leger was probed too. In a funny sort of way, putting the Derby back to its
original
distance (1M, 1780-1783) might have been at least a bold, radical manoeuvre. The current tinkering merely irritates and smacks of arranging deckchairs on the Titanic.
But as has been wisely said elsewhere, what’s done is done; and short of direct action (course invasions to disrupt the "New Champion Stakes"?) I can’t see much point in continuing to carp.
It’s their vulgar insolence in ignoring 85% of racegoers’ opinion that disgusts.
I actually missed Frankel on Saturday as I was too busy sorting out form for another race. The betting shop Turf TV was on too quietly and before I knew it, the horse had run and won impressively.
This season, because of the density of racing on a Saturday, the thick and fast nature of it, I’ve missed loads of races. Serving up all the good racing on a Saturday is utter madness. Complete insanity.
I blame R4C for this and I’m sorry, I cannot wish them well, Drone.
One more thing.
Forking out a million quid of our money, to attract five or six horses from yards whose owners already HAVE a million – nay, lots of millions – while the majority of horses who keep the game going race for a box of chocolates and a sloppy kiss from the Clerk of the Course in front of empty, cavernous stands, is immoral and a stain on the sport.
There was a race at Redcar last week where the fourth placed finisher recieved £96.42. I felt queasy reading the conditions. That won’t even buy a match ball for an EvoStick League match. How can we justify these plans chaps? How can we wish the enforcers of these plans well?
However, I do think we ought to stop whingeing because we’re just crying in the wilderness and really, there is nothing more pathetic than a plaintive cry when no-one is listening.
The decision to move the July Cup and Ebor to a Saturday were at the request of the two racecourses, Max. Nothing to do with RFC. Neither was there another pattern race within 30 minutes of Frankel running on Saturday. Form for a handicap or taking in the most talked about 2yo of the year…why don’t you prioritise!?
I don’t like what’s happened to the jumps track at Haydock. I wont pay £32 quid to "take in" Westlife with an evenings racing. I miss the Predominate and the Lupe. I was dead against the Sovereign Series.
However the Champion Stakes now moves to a racetrack with a potential raceday audience of 75000. Going by the attendance figures of the Royal Ascot Saturdays, 70000 seems a reasonable target. Thats about 55000 more than would be at Newmarket on a typical Champions Day. Its also a fact, prizemoney for the Champions Stakes has been in decline. Much is being made of New Approach’s participation in the 2008 renewal. The horses owner sponsored the card, the horses trainer abhors the Breeders Cup. It cant be disputed the last 3 renewals standard wise have been average, the quality of the race is in decline.
Sponsors pay big money for involvement in big events at high profile locations, thus this new venture will help draw new money into the sport, no? The Qatari’s are pouring money into the Arc, similar story with the Breeders Cup. Does British racing just lie down and take it?? The Gulf Arabs’s revere Ascot and anything associated with status. I wouldn’t be surprised if they come on board in a big way if this works out, a perfect foil to the Qatrai’s in a region synonymous with one-upmanship.
The meeting has been the given the go-ahead by the European Pattern Committee and as ever in racing nothing would have happened without the owners, breeders and trainers coming on board. The people directly involved and who will be directly effected by these changes seem to be of the opinion the world wont stop turning if their horse runs around a bend instead of a straight line for one race in its career. Perhaps they already realise their good horses will have had ample opportunity to display their precious gifts over the expanses of The Rowley Mile, The Curragh, York, Sandown, Deauville etc… long before they turn up to race at Ascot in October.
The competition to have the best horses at your racecourse is increasingly global. Their are some huge players out there, British racing wont stay competitive on tradition alone. Lets have some big picture perspective please.
I’ve seen almost nothing from RFC since its incarnation up to now. I’m glad they’ve at last produced something tangible by which we can judge them by. We’re always bemoaning the dearth of prizemoney and hence quality in British Racing, doesn’t this initiative at least go some way to redressing the balance?
It may work, it may not work, but I’m happy to take the
potential
benefits of it for now and reserve judgement until after the event.
Wish all involved with the project every good fortune.
Forking out a million quid of our money, to attract five or six horses from yards whose owners already HAVE a million – nay, lots of millions – while the majority of horses who keep the game going race for a box of chocolates and a sloppy kiss from the Clerk of the Course in front of empty, cavernous stands, is immoral and a stain on the sport.
There was a race at Redcar last week where the fourth placed finisher recieved £96.42. I felt queasy reading the conditions. That won’t even buy a match ball for an EvoStick League match. How can we justify these plans chaps? How can we wish the enforcers of these plans well?
Spot on couldn’t agree with you more
I blame R4C for this and I’m sorry, I cannot wish them well, Drone.
negativity don’t pull you through
Max
Given the options of blowing one’s brains out (walking away) or resolving to take a positive and objective – if grudging – view of a scenario we haven’t any chance of changing then I’ll take the latter anyday
You never know, I, you and the rest of the 85% may actually like it once we’ve experienced it
The angry cynic turns his back and tops himself, weeping, empty
The thoughtful skeptic watches and dies in a warm bed, smiling, vindicatedHowever the Champion Stakes now moves to a racetrack with a potential raceday audience of 75000. Going by the attendance figures of the Royal Ascot Saturdays, 70000 seems a reasonable target.
There is no chance whatsoever of seventy thousand turning up. Barnett was talking in terms of a target of thirty thousand when interviewed on the BBC on Saturday.
Cav, that’s a good post.
Three things: I will always prefer big field handicaps and just before the Lodge, my friend pointed something out to me about a runner in the Totesport International which was more absorbing than the race.
I’m also not much of a HRAC fan, sentimentality aside. Had Tregoning been running the favourite in the Lodge, I’d have been windowlicking the Turf TV screen like a recently released mental patient.
Final word on the Champion: I’d rather maintain a tradition that began with King Charles II (and Old Rowley), and keep good, strong races at Newmarket – which was once called "Headquarters" with great pride.
Stephen Wallis – a really, really poor MD – along with his besuited cabal of marketeers, insists on turning historic Newmarket into a bacchanalian outpost of Sodom and Gomorrah. Its just money for him. All of it. Just money.
Look at his treatment of the Bunbury Cup – a genuine disgrace on our sport, one of many this horrible year for horse racing.
Would you make a plea for positivity if Wallis had a pop at the 2000 Guineas racetitle because a focus group full of Bens didn’t understand what a Guinea was?
I can see it happening, sir. I really can.
Finally, we have already have a horse racing championship in October. Its called the Arc meeting and its been run brilliantly by our friends in France for a hundred years. We already have a
world
horse racing championship too. Its called the Breeders Cup and its run in the USA.
What do we need another for?
It’s embarrassingly provincial in a global world – you of all people should understand that. We’ve just complicated things because of cant.
Drone, this is my final word on the subject. Promise.
But mark my words, R4C is a three year project. They aren’t ascending to marketing nirvana any time soon. This isn’t the end and I’ll be watching. I hope you – and Cav, Alan, Pinza, Jose and all the gang – will too, sir.- Total Posts 17716
Excellent stuff, Max. Cav’ too.
Whilst I appreciate that switching the Champion Stakes to Ascot is (potentially) financially lucrative, will a crowd of 70,000 prove that the initiative has been a success when the final day of Royal Ascot attracts similar numbers with a juvenile event, a Group 2, a Group 1 sprint, two handicaps and a conditions race, worth just £480,000 in winners’ prize money?
I fear it will in the eyes of ‘those that matter’ and money will immediately become the marker for success, rather than the product itself.
But as a breeder, would you rather be able to advertise the services of an Arc winner or those of the victor of a weak, if financially beneficial, Champion Stakes? Who would you rather send your mare to?
It’s the Arc every time for me. The reason? Tradition and proven historical relevance; the Champion Stakes loses both as soon as it moves.
Drone, this is my final word on the subject. Promise.
But mark my words, R4C is a three year project. They aren’t ascending to marketing nirvana any time soon. This isn’t the end and I’ll be watching. I hope you – and Cav, Alan, Pinza, Jose and all the gang – will too, sir.For the sake of clarity my grudging wish for success is for the Champions’ Series, not for much else RFC have dreamt up and what they may dream up in the future; and if success be accomplished it will not mollify my opinion that it is wrong
The cynic wishes failure
The skeptic expects failureYou I APR Pinza, honorary oldsters Jose CR AJ and others strum a similar riff, if in a different discordant key from time to time, so while this seems an opportune time to return smoking guns to holsters regarding the Champion shenanigins, I do hope you et al continue to fire blanks at the acronyms in the future. Absorbing reading if nothing else, and we do have one small cog in the armoured machine – Silvoir – who has the decency to poke his head out the gun turret and converse with the enemy
You don’t win wars by talking to your friends
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
Gus – Apparently 20000 Brits make the trip to Longchamp this weekend each year, therefore you’d hope an estimate of 30000 in their own country at Ascot would be conservative and even at thirty that’s twice what you’d get at Newmarket.
Max – Take all of your points and I agree with most of them. What their attempting to do is maintain the Champion Stakes as a "good, strong race". Its declined both in quality and prizemoney over the last few years. If left as is, I don’t see even King Charles or Old Rowley reversing the trend. What I cant agree with, is letting the Arc and Breeders Cup strengthen in terms of quality and prizemoney at the expense of British racing when clearly there is a niche there to be exploited. What sort of message does that send out for the future of racing in UK if the flat season is effectively ready to pack up come the last week in September?? Its best trainers and horses racing elsewhere.
AJ – Definitions of success are subjective. For me a large crowd watching top quality Group 1 horses competing for big prizemoney with a strong betting market will be a success. As I’ve said already, that’s not guaranteed to happen, it certainly wont happen if they do nothing. Calendar position doesn’t favour The Champion Stakes and I agree The Arc will always take precedence and deservedly so, imo. But if you’ve got a top notch mile/10 furlong colt who wont get 12 furlongs there’s nothing for you in France, UK or Ireland after the QEII mid September, I repeat
nothing
. The Yanks use The Champion for recruitment these days ffs.
The world should be looking up to British racing every month of the year not just June and July. The "after you sir" mentality will serve no one over the longer term, not these days, with so money and ambition elsewhere.
What was that Napoleon said about shopkeepers…
However the Champion Stakes now moves to a racetrack with a potential raceday audience of 75000. Going by the attendance figures of the Royal Ascot Saturdays, 70000 seems a reasonable target. Thats about 55000 more than would be at Newmarket on a typical Champions Day.
Surely that only benefits Ascot financially, and the bookmakers standing there, and a bit of extra Tote hold. How does it really benefit the rest of racing?
- Total Posts 17716
You guys need to take a stand if you’re really against it. When I first got into horse racing and realised I couldn’t enter the best stand at Royal Ascot cause I wasn’t important enough I decided that I would never go to Ascot on any day of the year.
If you’re against it, don’t go. They are so quick to forget who puts money into the sport day after day when all the wealthy people are having a free day at the races. They forget who’s watching and paying to watch the meetings at Wolverhampton on a Friday night. If you had any will at all you’d abandon Ascot in protest. I won’t be watching or betting on any of these races and if there was more like me they wouldn’t be so flippant with these absurd decisions.
I’ll follow jump racing in this country and flat racing in France from next year, it’s a shame that I’m one of the only ones who can resist plunging money into this countries crap heap flat racing.
Thqat’s a great idea Phil, but what does a person who has only a fleeting interest in national hunt racing do?
Give up the sport he loves just because its been taken over by a seminarful of zealots with marketing degrees?
No. I’ll wait patiently for the inevitable bonfire, thanks.
Something that has been missed here is also the question of TV coverage. It will probably be on the BBC as C4 won’t bid for it, despite somebody at either Ascot or R4C thinking that the coverage will be competed for. It won’t.
My concern is this: if it is the BBC then exactly which channel are they going to put it on. If it is such a big meeting then surely R4C and Ascot will have to insist that it is on BBC1. One wee snag with that. The equivalent weekend this year will feature an F1 Grand Prix. The Beeb have never shunted any of their coverage of the cars to BBC2, so we could realistically be looking at the so called "Champions of British Racing" being on the minor channel as was last weekends QEII meeting and presumably Sunday’s Arc coverage (are the BBC actually covering it. That is my problem with BBC racing coverage. What little we do get from them is tucked away on 2 except for the National, The Derby and The King George. Even the Saturday of the Royal meeting missed out this year.
Has this issue actually been addressed because it jolly well needs to be as main channel TV coverage is essential to its marketing for next year and as a promotional tool for following years.
I thought it interesting that C4’s between race coverage this afternoon focussed on the history and tradition of racing and its place at Newmarket, rather than ‘fashion’. Coincidence or a metaphorical nose thumbing?
I was pleased to see Eddie Freemantle repeat a letter to the RPost as his ‘Quote of the Week’
"Tradition is racing’s greatest asset and this needs to be conveyed in a simple and direct manner, not becoming lost in short-lived razzmatazz"
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.