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As thoughts turn to the National, isn’t it about time the ridiculous reserve system was sorted out before we end up the farcical situation of having an initial entry of 150, but the prospect of ending up with less than a maximum field of 40.
I fail to see why the reserve system only runs up to 9.30am the day before the race. What would happen if the heavens open after that time (remember the Red Marauder year)? Good ground horses will be taken out and no reserve will be able to take it’s place.
In Ireland reserves can come in on the morning of the race. I know bookies aren’t keen on this as it can affect the market, and overseas they prefer to know the runners days in advance, but who is this event being run for?
Reserves on the day are very bad for punters, how can you have a bet if you don’t know the final field. It’s got to be done the day before.
As for the overseas market, who were 48 hour decs brought in for and how much is racing making from them?Can not be done.
What if a handicap good thing like Cloudy Lane lurked on number 41?The bookmakers could not form a book, or if they did would have to make it to a rediculously high over round.
With a "Cloudy Lane" in the race the second fav might be 16/1. Without him he could be 12/1. So the bookies would have to keep it at 12/1 until they knew who the 40 decs were.
Reserves should be got rid of, it is unfair to punters (who know what they are doing). Anyway, in my opinion 40 is too many. Should be a reduction.
Ginge
Value Is EverythingIf a course like Ayr can fit 30 for the Scottsh National I’m sure Aintree can fit 40. There is nothing in racing to match the cavalry charge to the 1st. I’m so sorry if you don’t get it.
"yeats" wrote: Reserves on the day are very bad for punters, how can you have a bet if you don’t know the final field. It’s got to be done the day before.
As for the overseas market, who were 48 hour decs brought in for and how much is racing making from them?But the National isn’t all about punters is it? I didn’t think Red Rum could have won me a lot of money. It’s the romance, spectical, drama and unpredictability that make it such a special race. 40 runners are pretty much essential to that. The Rough Quest race was the most boring National in living memory.
What’s wrong with a non runner no bet? The market can be based on the reserves running. If they can do it in Ireland every week I’m sure it’s not that difficult to do it here.
If the bookies do not know who is running Ken, they have to shorten all the prices Do you want them to work to (possibly) a 20% bigger book?
Ayr can have 30 runners, it is a wide enough course.
Aintree is also wide, but how many jockeys take their mounts on the outside of the Canal Turn.
Just imagine what would happen if the front two both fell at the fence, bringing down the next two.
Foinavon!
Or is that what you want? Unpredictability.
Ginge
Value Is EverythingIf we can have reserves for the national and other ‘big’ races why cant we go the whole hog and have reserves for every race. Working in a yard and seeing horses that constantly get balloted out for a race only when it is run to be chocced full of non runners is fustrating and disheartning especially to the connections of smaller stables and lower grade horses.
For the reasons I have given.
How can bookmakers form a market?
How can punters back a horse if they do not know who it is running against. Punting suicide!
Daft isea, not a chance of happening.
End of…
Ginge
Value Is EverythingThats the problem your only looking from the punting point of view and not considering the sporting one at all. Im pretty sure you will get fustrated when your bet comes 4th in a 15 runner handicap and there were 1 or 2 non runners the day before!
40 is ample when you consider that 66 lined up once.
I would love to see a consolation race on the day in the same way that at Flemington on Cup day they have a 1m6f handicap for those who missed the cut in the same way they have Ayr Silver Cups and the Spring Mile at Doncaster.
For a consolation race it should be over 3m2f or 3m5f with only conditional and amateur riders being aloud to ride in it
The problem is about when there is not the maximum field and connections of horses that hav just missed out are up in arms that they are been deprived of a run when there is plenty of time for a reserve system to be implemented
No way mate,
I never get frustrated with betting, well I say never, was shouting at the TV when I had a big bet ante-post on Six Perfections in the 1000. Might not have won anyway, but was rated better than Russian Rhythem at seasons end.Usually watch racing in silence.
I love racing, betting is secondary. I would love 50 horses to run in the National, great for the betting side, but it would not be safe, neither imo is 40.
Would the National have the same appeal to the masses without betting?
It might do to you and I, but not to the public.Trouble is people who come up with this type of idea (late reserves) are often ignorant of how betting works. It might be a mighty fine (or High Ken) idea in theory to let the unlucky 41st declared runner in, but it does not work in practice. Betting is part and parcel of the sport whether we like it or not.
Ginge
Value Is EverythingTake it Hi Ken (equals Slack) but guess again, Am pretty clued up about how the betting industry works but also about how the product is delivered. Its just one of the many area of our sport that needs looking at.
40 is ample when you consider that 66 lined up once.
I would love to see a consolation race on the day in the same way that at Flemington on Cup day they have a 1m6f handicap for those who missed the cut in the same way they have Ayr Silver Cups and the Spring Mile at Doncaster.
For a consolation race it should be over 3m2f or 3m5f with only conditional and amateur riders being aloud to ride in it
Neil,
A second Grand National (for that is what it will be seen as) would spoil the first. The Grand National is unique and it should stay that way.
We already have a Becher and a Foxhunter, why have another one near the National? If the owners and trainers want a runner over the fences why not go for those two races instead?
Many owners I would imagine would not want amateurs or conditionals on their horses jumping those fences.Ginge
Value Is EverythingDo they bet differently in Ireland where reserves are the norm? If we can’t sort out a decent reserve system for the National than it shows a total lack of flexability in racing in this country. Didn’t Dun Doire once win a big race in this manner but I don’t remember the bookies/punters up in arms, and Red Rum was pulled out on the eve of the 78 National which didn’t cause havoc to the betting public.
Going back to my original point if there are 150 initial entries no way should we end up with a situation of less than 40 runners. If the weather turns foul on the Friday afternoon you could have 2 or 3 mudlarks sitting on the reserves bench who might have won or been placed over the National fences but unable to run so what a bizarre position to be in. The papers don’t print the runners until much later in the day in any case.
For the consolation race you could have it so that only horses who were entered for the race could take part so no new entried could be made.
I would race it after the National or maybe at the May evening meeting
If we can have reserves for the national and other ‘big’ races why cant we go the whole hog and have reserves for every race. Working in a yard and seeing horses that constantly get balloted out for a race only when it is run to be chocced full of non runners is fustrating and disheartning especially to the connections of smaller stables and lower grade horses.
Quite. There were as many horses on a mark of 127 that missed out in the County Hurdle as got in this year (I presume lots were drawn originally to determine the pecking order of these), including European Dream on whom I’d had an – admittedly very speculative – ew interest. I’m sure the connections of those to miss out will have been a little less than impressed that a maximum field did not line up in the end.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
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